OFFICIAL Yankees vs. Red Sox trash talking thread

[kim]

I DO agree with you on Epstein. Im not a big Theo Epstein fan....and Im a Red Sox fan. I think he is totally over-rated as as GM......

[RoninJai]

Stoopid Red Sox.

[BurningSoul]

The best part of the game was Jeter smirking like he knew he was gonna homer while Varitek made 3 trips to the mound during that at bat. Awesome game.

[Yankee_Pride]

The best part of the game was Jeter smirking like he knew he was gonna homer while Varitek made 3 trips to the mound during that at bat. Awesome game.

Yep IMO Boston was definately trying to ice Jeter like they do the kicker in football but turns out they were over thinking themselves on how to get him out and made a mistake that cost them the game.

[Durstlimpbizkit]

Yankees take this year's series: 10-8

:)

[Mark Weber]

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/0eec0aca-693c-474c-b269-b06b1481da8f.jpg

[Yankee_Pride]

Crapelbon gives up a Grand Slam to Russ Adams....Hahahahahahaha!!!

[Yankee_Pride]

Hey Boston fans no that's not the four horsemen coming to take you away it's just the Yankees stampeding their way into 1st place in the AL East.

1.5 games back so we should be in sole possesion by the weekend. ;)

[SkoalStangGT]

Hey Boston fans no that's not the four horsemen coming to take you away it's just the Yankees stampeding their way into 1st place in the AL East.

1.5 games back so we should be in sole possesion by the weekend. ;)

you are out of control...but have every right.:D Sox magic number is 9...with 9 games to go...don't think that is going to happen. So the NEW magic number is 3, just to make the playoffs.

[DJBurnside]

This is HILARIOUS! This could be an all time choke job

[Yankee_Pride]

I have no doubt Boston will make the playoff it's just gonna be humiliating if they have to settle for the Wildcard after being up by 14.5 games at one point.

[Tanner2126]

please dont talk trash yet. Its like your trying to jinx it.

[Yankee_Pride]

please dont talk trash yet. Its like your trying to jinx it.

Jinx Sminx you as bad as those idiot Red Sox fans who blamed a dead guy for them not winning the WS in 80 + yrs. There is no such thing as a Jinx or Curse or anythingelse.

[Yankee_Pride]

Wow Gammons just brought up an interesting stat in that Manny Ramirez has had a total of 19 at bats in the month of september the last 2 years combined.

This comes on the heals of it being reported that Manny has been cleared by doctors to play for awhile now but Francona is leaving it up to Manny when / if he wants to play. You'd think with his team needing him the most he'd want to be in there but I guess not.

[ogrjmj]

don't forget we have to play those pesky devil rays with kazmir etc... tehy seem to have our #, plus the way the jays are playing, we could lose more than win down the stretch,but either way looks like we're in the playoffs!

[Yankee_Pride]

don't forget we have to play those pesky devil rays with kazmir etc... tehy seem to have our #, plus the way the jays are playing, we could lose more than win down the stretch,but either way looks like we're in the playoffs!

True plus Boston does have the easier schedule with both of their final 2 series being at home while the Yankees have to go on the road to Tampa Bay and Baltimore. It's much easier IMO to have the support of the home fans in those critical final 2 series.

[Tanner2126]

True plus Boston does have the easier schedule with both of their final 2 series being at home while the Yankees have to go on the road to Tampa Bay and Baltimore. It's much easier IMO to have the support of the home fans in those critical final 2 series.

I rather face Devil rays and Baltimore then Oakland and Twins. I dont care where you play.

[Rich Zufelt]

it's now safe to say the Red Sox have the division wrapped up, congrats Red Sox nation

hmmmmmmm

[BurningSoul]

Does anyone else hear the theme to "Jaws" playing in the background?

[kim]

This is HILARIOUS! This could be an all time choke job

nope...biggest choke job of all time belongs to the Yankees.....up 3-0 in the ALCS.....nothing else will EVER come close unless someone duplicates it....the Yankees will have that albatross around their necks for the next 100 years;)

[Donnellk13]

nope...biggest choke job of all time belongs to the Yankees.....up 3-0 in the ALCS.....nothing else will EVER come close unless someone duplicates it....the Yankees will have that albatross around their necks for the next 100 years;)

Bill Buckner

[kim]

Bill Buckner

thats one play. The Yankees choked on their egos for 4 consecutive games.....BIG difference:D

[Mark Weber]

nope...biggest choke job of all time belongs to the Yankees.....up 3-0 in the ALCS.....nothing else will EVER come close unless someone duplicates it....the Yankees will have that albatross around their necks for the next 100 years;)

Especially when it's the only thing Boston fans have to cling to... :)

[Donnellk13]

thats one play. The Yankees choked on their egos for 4 consecutive games.....BIG difference:D

1 play that cost the red sox a world series i guess no big deal huh. especially when they are one out away from the winning the world series on a ground ball that looked like it was it by a two year old

[Mark Weber]

thats one play. The Yankees choked on their egos for 4 consecutive games.....BIG difference:D

Couple things here Kim - did the Yankees choke or did the Red Sox rise to the challenge? You can't have it both ways.

And while I totally agree with you that IF Boston blows the division lead and still makes thepl ayoffs via their tradtional wild card win, it wouldn't be nearly as crushing as the Yankees' blown ALCS lead in 2004.

But you're minimizing the pain of 1986 - the Buckner error was one play, but the Bob Stanley wild pitch, Ray Knight RBI single, Kevin Mitchell single, and Gary Carter single that preceded Buckner's gaffe (all came with two outs) helped Boston blow that 5-3 10th inning lead. I won't mention that Boston left 14 men on base that game, or that they blew a 3-0 sixth inning lead in Game Seven to lose 8-5.

If you can't remember that game so clearly anymore, maybe this will help :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_trnJJYuI

[Durstlimpbizkit]

Couple things here Kim - did the Yankees choke or did the Red Sox rise to the challenge? You can't have it both ways.

And while I totally agree with you that IF Boston blows the division lead and still makes thepl ayoffs via their tradtional wild card win, it wouldn't be nearly as crushing as the Yankees' blown ALCS lead in 2004.

But you're minimizing the pain of 1986 - the Buckner error was one play, but the Bob Stanley wild pitch, Ray Knight RBI single, Kevin Mitchell single, and Gary Carter single that preceded Buckner's gaffe (all came with two outs) helped Boston blow that 5-3 10th inning lead. I won't mention that Boston left 14 men on base that game, or that they blew a 3-0 sixth inning lead in Game Seven to lose 8-5.

If you can't remember that game so clearly anymore, maybe this will help :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_trnJJYuI

Wow...I mean this isn't really a burn but it's a lot of information thrown at you at once.

Very good post here.

[kim]

Mark: You have WAY to much time on your hands:D .

[kim]

1 play that cost the red sox a world series i guess no big deal huh. especially when they are one out away from the winning the world series on a ground ball that looked like it was it by a two year old

Oh:( ...I never said it was "no big deal"......it was bad....but not NEARLY as bad as blowing a 3-0 lead in a series, duh.....;)

[SkoalStangGT]

Does anyone else hear the theme to "Jaws" playing in the background?

I think they started playing that instead of "Sweet Carolina" in the middle of the 8th:D

[Donnellk13]

I think they started playing that instead of "Sweat Carolina" in the middle of the 8th:D

is that the version about the north and south carolina in summer

[SharpyDave]

Oh:( ...I never said it was "no big deal"......it was bad....but not NEARLY as bad as blowing a 3-0 lead in a series, duh.....;)
I don't think you want to bring up historical events between the two teams, we have a lot more ammo :p

[kim]

I don't think you want to bring up historical events between the two teams, we have a lot more ammo :p

no doubt:) ....but we have the hammer:p

[Durstlimpbizkit]

no doubt:) ....but we have the hammer:p

You mean this kind of hammer?

http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/upload/2007/02/ear.gif

:D

Hopefully there's a speech language pathologist out there who gets this one.

[SharpyDave]

Let's solve this once and for all Farnsorth vs. Gagne, game ends when one team dies of exhaustion from running the bases.

[Durstlimpbizkit]

Let's solve this once and for all Farnsorth vs. Gagne, game ends when one team dies of exhaustion from running the bases.

Hmm...that'd be worse than purgatory if you ask me.

[Mark Weber]

no doubt:) ....but we have the hammer:p

And when the Yankees win their next title it'll turn into an embarrassing blip in middle of 27 Championships. Like the fat girl you kissed in high school... :)

It's the new thing Red Sox fans will cling to to make them feel special.

[dogs]

sweeping those red soxs up!!!!!!! hahahaha

[ComradeFlyer]

It's the new thing Red Sox fans will cling to to make them feel special.

says the fan who is clinging to the Yankees past glory....

[quiggle]

even if Boston wins the division they won't last long in the playoffs

like Jeter said, the best teams make the playoffs but the hottest team wins the title :)

[TastySweetNutz]

Still love the avatar quiggle...oh yeah, go Yanks!

[Bronx Bombers]

Wang-Clemens-Pettitte match up against any other playoff teams best 3, and with Joba and Mo better than anyone elses 8th and 9th inning man, i like our chances

[quiggle]

Still love the avatar quiggle...oh yeah, go Yanks!

this one is for you Tasty!

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/848/beerqn0.gif

you Yankiran fan :D

[fenwayp]

Okay, which one of you Yankee fans had to bail your wife out of jail tonight...LOL !!!

:eek: :D


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070922/capt.3582444091aa4db58104fcf1fbd71911.blue_jays_yankees_baseball_nyy112.jpg

[fenwayp]

Looks like the Tigers still have a shot at that Wildcard spot...GO TIGERS !!!!!

[Mark Weber]

says the fan who is clinging to the Yankees past glory....

Actually, I'm clinging to their current glory; best team in baseball since the break, re-fueled by the young prospects they didn't trade away, kicking the hell out of the Red Sox the last three series.

You've got this year's Cy Young winner, a breaking down DH, an AWOL left fielder, a right fielder with nine homers, four years, and 56 million left on his contract, a leaky bullpen, and the memories of 2004 to cling to.

I'd love for NY to add to Boston's misery by taking the division, but given the wretched start the Yankees got off to this season, I'll take playing well and making the playoffs in a heartbeat.

[SkoalStangGT]

Actually, I'm clinging to their current glory; best team in baseball since the break, re-fueled by the young prospects they didn't trade away, kicking the hell out of the Red Sox the last three series.

You've got this year's Cy Young winner, a breaking down DH, an AWOL left fielder, a right fielder with nine homers, four years, and 56 million left on his contract, a leaky bullpen, and the memories of 2004 to cling to.

I'd love for NY to add to Boston's misery by taking the division, but given the wretched start the Yankees got off to this season, I'll take playing well and making the playoffs in a heartbeat.

With nine homers, four years, and 56 million, it got him an SP next year:) The breaking down DH got a Collectors Box Set ;)

[quiggle]

Cleveland and Anaheim in this year's ALCS?

[JerseyDevil]

Actually, I'm clinging to their current glory; best team in baseball since the break, re-fueled by the young prospects they didn't trade away, kicking the hell out of the Red Sox the last three series.

You've got this year's Cy Young winner, a breaking down DH, an AWOL left fielder, a right fielder with nine homers, four years, and 56 million left on his contract, a leaky bullpen, and the memories of 2004 to cling to.

I'd love for NY to add to Boston's misery by taking the division, but given the wretched start the Yankees got off to this season, I'll take playing well and making the playoffs in a heartbeat.

I'd be more worried about your Yankees fighting for their playoff lives before I start trash talking a soon to be division winner.

[Bronx Bombers]

If and when we get into the playoffs i dont think threre is a team that can beat us. Our top 3 pitcher line up just as good if not better than any other teams. And our 8th and 9th inning pitchers are better than any other team. Chamberlian and Rivera are better than a tierd arm Okajima/Lead blowing Gagne and Papelbon

[fenwayp]

If and when we get into the playoffs i dont think threre is a team that can beat us. Our top 3 pitcher line up just as good if not better than any other teams. And our 8th and 9th inning pitchers are better than any other team. Chamberlian and Rivera are better than a tierd arm Okajima/Lead blowing Gagne and Papelbon

:rolleyes: Oh, okay...

Your "superior" pitching staff has an ERA of 4.41 compared to the AL-leading Red Sox who have an ERA of 3.86...you are delerious and misled if you really believe that the Yankees are unbeatable in the Playoffs, as you say.

[kim]

Cleveland and Anaheim in this year's ALCS?

This is probably the most intelligent post (including mine) that has been made on this thread in months...everyone assumes it will be the Yankees and Red Sox in the ALCS.....i could see the Angels and Cleveland kicking the crap out of both of them.

As far as the Yankees pitching staff all of a sudden becoming the Orioles staff in the late 60's, early 70's....THAT is wishful thinking by Yankee fans. The ONLY consistent starter you have is Wang....Clemens (and I love him to death) is an old man who gives everything he has....but to count on him at this point is a mistake.....Mussina?....give me a break.....one well pitched game doesnt even come close to convincing me he is back......to say their three starters match up with Anaheim, Cleveland, or Boston is a joke.

The only chance the Yankees have is to outslug whoever they play. Playoff baseball is a little different than regular season. This is NOT to say the Yankees CANT do it.....i just dont like their chances. Besides, you know A-fraud will hit .130 in the playoffs which is going to put extra pressure on Giambi, Posada, etc to drive in runs that A-fraud does in the regular season.

And last but not least....Rivera is no longer invincible.....he was a hit away from blowing 2 or 3 games in the past week alone.......in the old days......him coming in to start the 9th was a done deal.....now its iffy.........im sure Yankees fans squirm when he comes in these days

[SeattleMariners51445]

This is NOT to say the Yankees CANT do it.....i just dont like their chances. Straight from your incredibly non-biased opinions, am I correct?:rolleyes:

[kim]

Actually, I'm clinging to their current glory; best team in baseball since the break, re-fueled by the young prospects they didn't trade away, kicking the hell out of the Red Sox the last three series.

You've got this year's Cy Young winner, a breaking down DH, an AWOL left fielder, a right fielder with nine homers, four years, and 56 million left on his contract, a leaky bullpen, and the memories of 2004 to cling to.

I'd love for NY to add to Boston's misery by taking the division, but given the wretched start the Yankees got off to this season, I'll take playing well and making the playoffs in a heartbeat.

Then cling away Mark:p ...no question the evil empire has been the best team since the allstar break.

Once Manny is back for the playoffs, Ortiz will start seeing more pitches to hit...Manny will be Manny..and Ellsbury will play CF or RF so they can get JD "Pew" out of the lineup (friggin stiff:mad: ).

Boston's bullpen will be fine......are they struggling now?...yup.......but they will right the ship in time for the playoffs.....

[kim]

Straight from your incredibly non-biased opinions, am I correct?:rolleyes:

This seems like a ******ed comment:confused: .....I clearly stated the evil empire is CAPABLE of doing it...i just dont like their chances. Thats a baseball fan's opinion......plain and simple.

[quiggle]

kim, in your previous post above where you mentioned the Yankees starters you left out Pettitte, isn't he still a solid pitcher especially clutch in the post season?

[kim]

kim, in your previous post above where you mentioned the Yankees starters you left out Pettitte, isn't he still a solid pitcher especially clutch in the post season?

yup:o .....I did forget about him....and dumb on my part..clearly the 2nd best option after Wang.......he hasnt been as good as in the past...but he has that experience and will make a difference come playoff time......no question......

[Mark Weber]

With nine homers, four years, and 56 million, it got him an SP next year:) The breaking down DH got a Collectors Box Set ;)

You make excellent points. Which free agent signee and current MVP candidate do you predict will sputter and break down in 2008?

[Mark Weber]

I'd be more worried about your Yankees fighting for their playoff lives before I start trash talking a soon to be division winner.

Umm, it's a trash talking thread...was I supposed to send flowers in here?

[quiggle]

Mark, can we please see pics of your Yankees room/collection? thanks :)

[pakalolo2]

Actually, I'm clinging to their current glory; best team in baseball since the break, re-fueled by the young prospects they didn't trade away, kicking the hell out of the Red Sox the last three series.

You've got this year's Cy Young winner, a breaking down DH, an AWOL left fielder, a right fielder with nine homers, four years, and 56 million left on his contract, a leaky bullpen, and the memories of 2004 to cling to.

I'd love for NY to add to Boston's misery by taking the division, but given the wretched start the Yankees got off to this season, I'll take playing well and making the playoffs in a heartbeat.

Gotta love this clown talking about bad contracts...

[Donnellk13]

This is probably the most intelligent post (including mine) that has been made on this thread in months...everyone assumes it will be the Yankees and Red Sox in the ALCS.....i could see the Angels and Cleveland kicking the crap out of both of them.

As far as the Yankees pitching staff all of a sudden becoming the Orioles staff in the late 60's, early 70's....THAT is wishful thinking by Yankee fans. The ONLY consistent starter you have is Wang....Clemens (and I love him to death) is an old man who gives everything he has....but to count on him at this point is a mistake.....Mussina?....give me a break.....one well pitched game doesnt even come close to convincing me he is back......to say their three starters match up with Anaheim, Cleveland, or Boston is a joke.

The only chance the Yankees have is to outslug whoever they play. Playoff baseball is a little different than regular season. This is NOT to say the Yankees CANT do it.....i just dont like their chances. Besides, you know A-fraud will hit .130 in the playoffs which is going to put extra pressure on Giambi, Posada, etc to drive in runs that A-fraud does in the regular season.

And last but not least....Rivera is no longer invincible.....he was a hit away from blowing 2 or 3 games in the past week alone.......in the old days......him coming in to start the 9th was a done deal.....now its iffy.........im sure Yankees fans squirm when he comes in these days


For you to think that Boston 1 2 3 starters are greater than the Yankees is a joke. I understand Anaheim and Cleveland because each have 2 starters that are having great years but Boston has 1 starter who is doing great this year then after that it goes down hill. Schilling to me is like Clemens olsd washed up and cant get his fastball in the 90's. Then that leaves Dice-K who has been so shaky this year so I dont understand where you think the sox starters are better than the Yankees.

Arod batting avg in the post season is .256 can you tell me what Mannys is.

Who would you rather in your bullpen Papelbon or Rivera? And be serious. Rivera is the best closer all time he has had a lil trouble his past few saves but i think its from being used to much. No Yankee fan I know is squirms when he comes in he is not Eric Gange. Mo has as many blown saves as Papelbon and he has 5 less saves for a team that had a awful start so he must not be that bad.

[Mark Weber]

As far as the Yankees pitching staff all of a sudden becoming the Orioles staff in the late 60's, early 70's....THAT is wishful thinking by Yankee fans. The ONLY consistent starter you have is Wang....Clemens (and I love him to death) is an old man who gives everything he has....but to count on him at this point is a mistake.....Mussina?....give me a break.....one well pitched game doesnt even come close to convincing me he is back......to say their three starters match up with Anaheim, Cleveland, or Boston is a joke.

You've left out Andy Pettitte - one of the better postseason pitchers of his era. Granted, Pettitte arrived just as baseball added another layer of playoffs and has been on playoff teams nearly his entire career, but his 14 postseason victories trail only John Smoltz's 15 for most postseason wins in MLB history. Pettitte is 10-1 since the All-Star Game...

Beckett, Carmona and Sabathia are the three best starters in the A.L. playoffs (assuming Detroit doesn't leapfrog NY for the wild card), but Schilling, Matsuzaka & Wakefield aren't scaring anyone right now. Boston's pitching stats may look fine on the surface, but aside from Beckett they've been getting lit up (bullpen included) on a regular basis.

[Mark Weber]

Gotta love this clown talking about bad contracts...

You're going to have to try harder if you want to make a point. Are you a Boston fan or just a Yankee hater?

[Durstlimpbizkit]

Boston's bullpen will be fine......are they struggling now?...yup.......but they will right the ship in time for the playoffs.....

What do you base this off of? They've been awful.

[Mark Weber]

Then cling away Mark:p ...no question the evil empire has been the best team since the allstar break.

Once Manny is back for the playoffs, Ortiz will start seeing more pitches to hit...Manny will be Manny..and Ellsbury will play CF or RF so they can get JD "Pew" out of the lineup (friggin stiff:mad: ).

Boston's bullpen will be fine......are they struggling now?...yup.......but they will right the ship in time for the playoffs.....

There's no guarantee Manny will be back for the playoffs is there? Hasn't he been medically cleared for over a week now?

The trickle-down effect of the Drew signing (plus Youkilis' emergence and Ortiz's inability to contribute defensively) led the front office to move Wily Mo Pena, who seeemed like a new player once he got regular at-bats in Washington. Ellsbury certainly looks like he'll stick, but if he plays right it leaves Crisp in center and gives the Sox very little punch from two of their three outfield slots.

"Boston's bullpen will be fine" sounds more like a wish than a statement. Okajima's tired arm will get fixed with a week's rest? Papelbon's recent hiccups aren't arm related are they? I mean his arm gave out just last year. Is there any reason to believe Gagne will suddenly bceome an effective option?

[pakalolo2]

You're going to have to try harder if you want to make a point. Are you a Boston fan or just a Yankee hater?

Both. As far as bad contracts go, in case it slipped your mind as you were digging up anti-sox stats and silly Patriots logos, how about; Damon, Giambi, Mussina, Pavano, Johnson,Clemens...good enough for ya? Oh, I forgot about Kei Igawa...that was some healthy spending, wasn't it?

[pakalolo2]

There's no guarantee Manny will be back for the playoffs is there? Hasn't he been medically cleared for over a week now?

The trickle-down effect of the Drew signing (plus Youkilis' emergence and Ortiz's inability to contribute defensively) led the front office to move Wily Mo Pena, who seeemed like a new player once he got regular at-bats in Washington. Ellsbury certainly looks like he'll stick, but if he plays right it leaves Crisp in center and gives the Sox very little punch from two of their three outfield slots.

"Boston's bullpen will be fine" sounds more like a wish than a statement. Okajima's tired arm will get fixed with a week's rest? Papelbon's recent hiccups aren't arm related are they? I mean his arm gave out just last year. Is there any reason to believe Gagne will suddenly bceome an effective option?

The trickle down of Wily Mo started in the New York system , didn't it? Can you come up with Manny's medical records Dr. Weber?

[SkoalStangGT]

You make excellent points. Which free agent signee and current MVP candidate do you predict will sputter and break down in 2008?

lets hope the current MVP Arod breaks down in 2008...unless he's with the Red Sox and then we hope he doesn't have a break down year.:D As for the Sox SPs..flop or stud, you keep making them and I'll keep buying them...bring on the Okajima and Pedroia SP

[JerseyDevil]

Umm, it's a trash talking thread...was I supposed to send flowers in here?

I'm just pointing out that you are like every other ignorant pathetic Yankees fan who always assumes they will win and the Red Sox will lose. It's very amusing to watch.

[Bronx Bombers]

Go Gagne!!!!

[quiggle]

are Gagne and Farnsworth both twins? they wear glasses and blow leads for their respective teams

[SkoalStangGT]

all tied up!
The sox are about to give me a myocardial infarction

[Bronx Bombers]

LOL, i forgot Boston was playing Tampa Bay

[fenwayp]

:D ;) Magic Number = 6

[ogrjmj]

:mad: tampa just loves teasing me, hold a frickin lead already:mad:

[SkoalStangGT]

WOW...Gagne gets a Win, Pap gets a save and Drew hits another homer...are we all posting about the same people:confused:

[fenwayp]

:mad: tampa just loves teasing me, hold a frickin lead already:mad:

Look at yourself, man...dependent upon TAMPA BAY...you should be ashamed of yourself...;)

[fenwayp]

Red Sox clinch playoff spot; Varitek, Lugo homer in 9th to beat Tampa Bay 8-6

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) -- The Boston Red Sox became the first team in the majors to clinch a playoff spot this season, rallying on ninth-inning home runs by Jason Varitek and Julio Lugo to beat the Tampa Bay Devil Rays 8-6 Saturday.

The victory assured the Red Sox of at least the AL wild-card spot. They held their 2 1/2 -game lead in the AL East over New York, which beat Toronto 12-11 in 10 innings.

Boston trailed 6-5 when Varitek led off the ninth with an opposite-field homer to left off closer Al Reyes (3-3). Eric Hinske then doubled and scored one out later when Lugo homered.

Eric Gagne (4-2) pitched a perfect eighth for the win. Jonathan Papelbon worked the ninth for his 36th save in 39 opportunities.

[ogrjmj]

Look at yourself, man...dependent upon TAMPA BAY...you should be ashamed of yourself...;)

not really depending on them but a little help never hurt.:) maybe being the wild card will be a good thing, we always play better as the underdog.

[kim]

What do you base this off of? They've been awful.

Im basing it on the year to date:confused: ...boston's bullpen was strong until the past month.......they have been pathetic of late...they will bounce back in my opinion.

To say they have been "awful" is not correct. If you have been watching the past two, three weeks only...you are correct......if you look at the bulk of their work over the course of the year they have been damn good (Gagne not withstanding)

[SkoalStangGT]

Great game by the Sox tonight...Yankees are hanging in there also! Should be a great postseason! Looking forward to seeing all 4 AL teams play. It will be interesting.

[fenwayp]

Nice to see another Red Sox win coupled with a Yankees loss to the D-Rays...Yankees are a mere 8-8 vs. D-Rays this year.

[orionquest]

Magic number to win the division is 3. Manny is back. Youk is back.

October approaches! Will we watch yet another Sox-Yanks ALCS?

[Mark Weber]

The bullpen wasted NY's slim chance at the division - Torre and company seem content with the Wild Card, and given the dreadfual start to the season I am too. I would have LOVED to catch Boston for the division, but it was not worth wearing out the playoff bullpen for to get there.

Anaheim and Cleveland are both scary though - I'd argue that all four A.L. playoff teams are better than anything the N.L. has to offer.

[orionquest]

Anaheim and Cleveland are both scary though - I'd argue that all four A.L. playoff teams are better than anything the N.L. has to offer.

Fully agreed, Mark. The only way the AL loses the series is if something like last year occurs, when Tigers pitchers forgot how to field the ball.

This is the first year where all four teams seem evenly matched. They all have obvious strengths and notable weaknesses. No team is complete, but all four have players, both on the field and mound, that can take over a game.

The guys to watch, for me, are Vladmir Guerrero, Alex Rodriguez, C.C. Sabathia, Josh Beckett, Jonathon Papelbon, Joba Chamberlain, Orlando Cabrera and Grady Sizemore. The path to the World Series will be laid down by one of these eight.

Go Sox!

[VickBrady12]

I coul not care for either team, cause Im a Jays fan but I would rather see Boston beat Yankees, simply because Im a Big Big Papi fan, nicest guy you will ever meet, its a crazy way of choosing but a like to root for the good people.Anaheim could be the dark horse in all of this.

[SkoalStangGT]

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/BDD_SICover_100107_RedSox.jpg

[SharpyDave]

Great game by the Sox tonight...Yankees are hanging in there also! Should be a great postseason! Looking forward to seeing all 4 AL teams play. It will be interesting.
You could make a case for any of the four winning - they are all so close and will come down to who's ace is hotter.

[quiggle]

congrats Red Sox!

http://shop.com.edgesuite.net/ccimg.shop.com/200000/205800/205823/products/46965603.jpg

[Bronx Bombers]

congrats Red Sox!

http://shop.com.edgesuite.net/ccimg.shop.com/200000/205800/205823/products/46965603.jpg

*Pukes*;)

[Bronx Bombers]

And what the flip?? They arent the AL East Champions yet

[Bronx Bombers]

Well flip that, lol

[SkoalStangGT]

very nice job!!! great season and what a close one!! Here we go oct. 3

[orionquest]

And there it is, for the regular season.

Sox take the AL East. Thank you for the assist, Mariano.

Red Sox play the Angeles. Yankees take on the Indians. Best record still up for grabs between Boston and Cleveland.

[Bronx Bombers]

YES!!! I want Wild Card and Cleveland over Division and LAA. :D

[pakalolo2]

Bump for laughs...

[Mark Weber]

From today's ESPN.com chat with Howard Bryant:

Mark Weber, Tempe AZ : In a previous article, you mentioned that the 2004 Red Sox were under suspicion for using illegal means to steal signals. I've never heard that before - is there any other public info that backs that story? Thanks!

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/sn2.gif Howard Bryant: (2:43 PM ET ) It was quite the sitr among scouts, I believe in July or August, for home games. Some scouts were convinced the Red Sox were using a camera located in the CF triangle.

[troop2325]

Mark isnt it a little early to be throwing mud. Plus you know thats just there because of spygate...

[Mark Weber]

From Howard Bryant's Mitchell Investigation article on ESPN.com:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142651

Mitchell was named director of the Boston Red Sox in late December 2001, immediately following the purchase of the team by the partnership of John Henry, Larry Lucchino and Tom Werner. In 2002, the team's first media guide under the Henry group listed Mitchell sixth on a seven-person executive masthead, above legal counsel Lucinda Treat and below only the three owners and vice chairmen Leslie Otten and David Ginsburg.

It was not the first time Mitchell would have a financial stake in a baseball team. At the same time he joined the Red Sox, Mitchell was a member of the board of directors of the Walt Disney Co., the parent company of the Anaheim Angels and eventual 2002 World Series champions. He has been on the Disney board since 1994, and was chairman at Disney from 2004-06. But from the beginning, the Red Sox sale was a particularly sensitive issue for Selig. The commissioner was accused of engineering the $660 million Red Sox transaction to the Henry group, while various other competitors to buy the Red Sox, such as HBO and CableVision founder Charles Dolan, believed the Henry group's bid had not been the highest. Dolan reportedly believed he had outbid Henry by nearly $100 million, and a bid by Miles Prentice was said to be the highest, at $755 million. Selig denied any involvement in managing the sale of the team or that he favored Henry, who had owned the Florida Marlins, or Werner, who endured a turbulent experience as owner of the San Diego Padres during the early 1990s when baseball was embroiled in a rift between large- and small-market franchises. Selig, who was fond of Werner, watched the bitterly divided owners push Werner out of the game in 1993 and told him he would run a team again one day.

In the days following the sale, Massachusetts Attorney General Thomas Reilly announced an investigation of the transaction on the grounds that the Yawkey Trust, the charitable foundation that held the team following the 1992 death of Jean Yawkey, was entitled to the highest bid. Reilly threatened a lawsuit against the Red Sox and Major League Baseball, depending on his findings. The Boston Globe, which holds a 17-percent stake in the Red Sox through its ownership by the New York Times Company, referred to Henry's purchase as "a bag job." The Boston Herald called the sale, "the fix." Ultimately, Reilly did not take legal action after the Henry ownership group agreed to increase its charitable contribution to the Yawkey Trust.

Tapping Mitchell, a Red Sox director, to lead the investigation furthered suspicions around baseball that the Red Sox might be treated more favorably in his report than the other clubs. That issue came to the forefront when word leaked just before the pivotal Game 6 of October's ALCS between Cleveland and Boston, won by the Red Sox, that Indians pitcher Paul Byrd had purchased human growth hormone. A day later, Mitchell released a statement denying any involvement in the Byrd leak.


"It doesn't make a difference what they say," an American League source said regarding Mitchell. "He's one of them."


Selig and the baseball establishment believe that because of the high-profile nature of the steroids investigation, Mitchell has nearly as much riding on his ability to produce a powerful, respected document as Selig. Maintaining his hard-earned reputation alone, Selig often said during the summer, is reason enough for Mitchell to keep his relationship with the Red Sox from undermining the investigation.


"It didn't come from Mitchell," a league source said of the Byrd leak. "It's ridiculous. Does anybody think that George Mitchell would risk everything he's built over his career just to help the Red Sox win a game?"


While much of the emphasis regarding steroid use has focused on West Coast teams such as Oakland, San Francisco and San Diego, three players who admitted to using steroids -- Canseco, Jeremy Giambi and Paxton Crawford -- spent time with the Red Sox. Another, the former American League MVP Mo Vaughn, admitted that in 1998 he used Pro-HGH, an oral form of human growth hormone. In 2000, Boston police found steroids and syringes in a car owned by shortstop Manny Alexander that had been loaned to the team batboy.


According to sources in both the American and National Leagues who have been interviewed by Mitchell's investigators, Selig's refusal to consider Mitchell as a potentially polarizing figure was a major gamble by the commissioner. Because of Mitchell's accomplished background, Selig apparently believed Mitchell would be accepted as an honorable, ethical choice by the baseball establishment; and as such, Mitchell could overcome whatever perceptions existed of his possible conflicts of interest.


"When we first thought about doing this, we talked to many, many people," Selig said in Denver before Game 4 of the World Series. "And everyone we talked to told us you couldn't find a better man than George Mitchell. He has the respect of everyone. He is a man of integrity and we believed he was the best choice for the job."


Indeed, Mitchell amassed his impressive credentials in the years before and after he was first elected to the Senate in 1980. He served as the Senate Majority Leader from 1989 until 1995, and is widely credited with brokering peace in Northern Ireland in 1998. Mitchell was a judge and prosecutor in his home state of Maine during the 1970s, served with distinction in Congress in the years following and worked periodically with baseball and other sports. He investigated a bid-rigging scandal before the Salt Lake City Olympics, and he has at times been considered a candidate to succeed Selig as commissioner of baseball.


In 2000, Mitchell served on, and was the spokesman for, the Commissioner's Blue Ribbon Panel on Baseball Economics. Introduced as an independent analysis, the document was widely viewed as a confirmation of ownership's stated -- and often challenged -- position that its teams were losing money. Also on the four-member panel was George Will, who was on the boards of both the San Diego Padres and the Baltimore Orioles at the time.
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1203/pg2_bosox_owners_300.jpg (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142651#)AP Photo/Mike Mergen
When the new owners of the Red Sox were introduced to Boston in December 2001, George Mitchell, left, stood with them.


For the four years leading up to his role with the current steroids inquiry -- from 2002 to 2006 -- Mitchell was being paid by the Red Sox. During the course of his investigation, Mitchell hasn't been able to avoid the suspicions aroused by that fact. At times, such as two occasions in which the New York Times published reports that claimed Mitchell's directorship contained an equity stake in the Red Sox, Mitchell fought back.

In a Nov. 27 e-mail interview with ESPN.com, Mitchell said, "I do not have, and have never had, any equity interest whatsoever in the Red Sox, past, present, or future. I will not make any money if the Red Sox are sold. This incorrect allegation first appeared in a column in the New York Times on April 1, 2006. When informed that it was incorrect, the Times printed a retraction on April 5, 2006. However, the same allegation appeared in an article in the New York Times on October 23, 2007, and was again retracted by the Times the next day. In its correction on October 24, 2007, the Times accurately stated that Senator Mitchell 'does not [have] future equity rights and, if the team were sold, he would not receive part of the sale proceeds.'"


But Mitchell's point represented to many a distinction without a difference. He might not have been a part owner, but he was being paid by the Red Sox before the investigation was announced. And as it turns out, he apparently will be back on the team's payroll when the inquiry is concluded.


Mitchell had no comment regarding his Red Sox salary; but John Clarke, a spokesman for DLA Piper, the law firm conducting the investigation for Mitchell, sought to clarify Mitchell's position.


"Senator Mitchell and the Red Sox have agreed that he would not provide advice to the Red Sox owners until this investigation is completed and he would not receive any compensation from the team. That is the current situation," Clarke wrote in a Nov. 30 e-mail to ESPN.com. "It is the expectation of the Senator and the Red Sox that he will resume his previous role after the completion of the investigation."


In an e-mail exchange with ESPN.com, Larry Lucchino, the Red Sox president, suggested that he wanted Mitchell to return at the conclusion of the investigation as a paid member of the franchise.


"The title of director is an honorary one, and Senator Mitchell is not engaged in any advisory activities with the Red Sox. He has received no compensation from the Red Sox organization, or its related entities, during this investigation," Lucchino wrote, also on Nov. 30. "In that all formal votes of NESV, LLC (the Red Sox parent entity) are weighted on the basis of equity, Senator Mitchell's position was a nonvoting position. At the conclusion of the investigation, it is our hope and expectation that Senator Mitchell will return to the Red Sox in his previous advisory role."

At the March 30, 2006, press conference to announce that Mitchell would lead an investigation into performance-enhancing drugs, Selig said, "Nothing is more important to me than the integrity of the game of baseball."



Clarke and Lucchino both said Mitchell's return to the Red Sox following the investigation includes a return to the payroll. One general manager said that he did not believe Mitchell would implicate a high-profile Red Sox player in his report.

While Mitchell is on the record that he does not and did not own an interest in the Red Sox, he did not readily disclose that the Red Sox paid him for four years. Nor does a role as a paid advisor seem to fit Lucchino's description of Mitchell's directorship as "honorary," which might suggest the position is unpaid.


Some members of the baseball establishment indicated to ESPN.com that neither Mitchell nor Selig have seemed willing to acknowledge the legitimacy of their concerns about Mitchell as the investigation unfolded.


"Did he get a ring?" asked one team executive about Mitchell following Boston's World Series sweep of Colorado. "The kids who park cars at Fenway Park got rings, so you have to think he'll get one."


In late November, Mitchell told ESPN.com that his connection with the Red Sox frustrated his ability to gain the trust of some of the clubs.



"Unfortunately, the truth has never caught up with the allegation, which has been repeated in several articles around the country," he wrote in an e-mail. "As a result . . . it 'was a constant point of contention.' I can do nothing other than to restate the truth: The allegation is simply not true."



From the beginning, Mitchell didn't seem to embrace the need for a higher degree of transparency. At the news conference with Selig to announce the investigation on March 30, 2006, Mitchell said, "I do not intend to resign from the Red Sox. I don't believe there is any reason for me to do so. If, in any way, anyone associated with the Red Sox is implicated, they will be treated like anyone else."



Once, before a Red Sox-Yankees game at Fenway Park this spring, Mitchell sat in the home dugout, wearing a Red Sox cap and jacket, obtaining autographs for his grandson. To Mitchell's embarrassment, Ken Davidoff, the baseball writer for Newsday, published the story. Davidoff's story gained little traction, but the incident might be the most emblematic moment of Mitchell's dilemma.


"They expected everyone to believe what they say, but they didn't do anything real to change anybody's mind. It was just his word," one general manager said of Mitchell and his investigators. "They think everybody is stupid. They really do."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if not for Bud Selig, the Dolan family could be ruining the Red Sox instead of my New York Knicks...

[Patriots2421]

The Sox won the World Series nah nahh and HA HA to your team.

[troop2325]

Damn Mark you must be really teeded off to start this early...what do you think about the posada/rivera/pettite signings?

[Paul755]

damn Mark, slow day at work?

[Mark Weber]

The Sox won the World Series nah nahh and HA HA to your team.

Sox won the World Series. Yankees were the better team. That's all I've got right now unless I fall back on the cumulative titles thing...

[Mark Weber]

Damn Mark you must be really teeded off to start this early...what do you think about the posada/rivera/pettite signings?

The sad economic truth in MLB is that is you're a Yankees/Cubs/Dodgers/Red Sox (maybe Angels and Tigers too?) you don't have to blink at free agent costs or mistakes. They overpaid for Rivera and Posada, but given the free agent alternatives I think it was the right move.

Pettitte coming back helped nip the Santana discussions (that I didn't care for) and enables the Yankees (assuming that Mussina pitches himself out of the rotation) to field homegrown players for their entire starting rotation (Chamberlain, Pettitte, Wang, Hughes & Kennedy), the closer, and five of the starting eight defensive players (Posada, Cano, Jeter, Cabrera & Duncan). (To me (as a fan), there's nothing like a homegrown prospect.

[Bronx Bombers]

The Yankees should use a 6 man rotation, it helps keep the young guys innings down and it helps the old guys keep their innnings down too

[orionquest]

Sox won the World Series. Yankees were the better team. That's all I've got right now unless I fall back on the cumulative titles thing...

"Better"?

Now, now. Very good team, yes. Underrated team, absolutely. Fell on some bad breaks, for sure. But the Red Sox won the World Series. And, cumulative titles aside, your comment sounds like a Red Sox fan from 5+ years ago.

My oh my how the world has changed.

That said, I have issues with Mitchell running this investigation. I absolutely believe that he either should have removed himself and all his equity from the Red Sox, or that MLB should have appointed someone else. I have a big issue with conflict of interest, even if it does favor my team.

[Durstlimpbizkit]

That said, I have issues with Mitchell running this investigation. I absolutely believe that he either should have removed himself and all his equity from the Red Sox, or that MLB should have appointed someone else. I have a big issue with conflict of interest, even if it does favor my team.

Yeah, are we ever going to get that list that we were told about by the way? I mean I know it was supposed to come out at the end of the year but i'm gettin antsy already, but you're right, he should have stepped down.

[orionquest]

Yeah, are we ever going to get that list that we were told about by the way? I mean I know it was supposed to come out at the end of the year but i'm gettin antsy already, but you're right, he should have stepped down.

I'm getting the impression that we won't get it. MLB, with or without a Red Sox bias, influences that list. And if any key names are on it, say a Jeter, Ortiz, Pujols, Santana, Guerrero, Wright, Rodriguez, Soriano, Beckett, etc. then it may not ever come out.

[Durstlimpbizkit]

I'm getting the impression that we won't get it. MLB, with or without a Red Sox bias, influences that list. And if any key names are on it, say a Jeter, Ortiz, Pujols, Santana, Guerrero, Wright, Rodriguez, Soriano, Beckett, etc. then it may not ever come out.

Yeah, there's too much money involved with throwing the names of players out there.

[Captain]

The report is allegedly coming out on Thursday.

[Mark Weber]

"Better"?

Now, now. Very good team, yes. Underrated team, absolutely. Fell on some bad breaks, for sure. But the Red Sox won the World Series. And, cumulative titles aside, your comment sounds like a Red Sox fan from 5+ years ago.

Obviously Boston had the better season, and definitely the better POSTseason, but a flawed Yankees team with a crippled pitching staff for much of the year won eight of the last ten games to take the season series 10-8. Illustrating that point -

NY starters in games Boston won:
Andy Pettitte (twice)
Jeff Karstens
Chase Wright
Chien-Ming Wang (twice)
Mike Mussina (twice)

Boston starters in games NY won:
Wakefield (three times)
Schilling (three times)
Beckett (twice)
Matsuzaka (twice)

Dig into the numbers and forecast (cause baseball's so far away it's what we do in the offseason) and here are the top seven likely starters for each squad and how they pitched against the other team in 2007:

Red Sox pitchers
Beckett vs. NY: 2-1, 4.39
Wakefield vs. NY: 0-3, 10.93
Schilling vs. NY: 0-3, 5.51
Matsuzaka vs. NY: 2-1, 6.12
Lester vs. NY: Didn’t face NY in 2007. Gave up 7 ER in 3.2 IP vs. NY in 2006 (17.18)
Buchholz vs. NY: Didn’t face NY in 2007.
Tavarez vs. NY: 2-0, 4.22

Yankees pitchers
Wang vs. Boston: 3-2, 4.11
Pettitte vs. Boston: 2-1, 5.24
Chamberlain vs. Boston: 1-0, 2.08
Hughes vs. Boston: Didn’t face Boston in 2007.
Kennedy vs. Boston: Didn’t face Boston in 2007.
Mussina vs. Boston: 0-1, 9.26
Igawa vs. Boston: 1-0, 0.00 (6 IP)

[SeattleMariners51445]

^^^Mark's Alive Bump!^^^:D

[orionquest]

Obviously Boston had the better season, and definitely the better POSTseason, but a flawed Yankees team with a crippled pitching staff for much of the year won eight of the last ten games to take the season series 10-8. Illustrating that point -

That's all well and good, Mark, but it doesn't prove anything. Had the Yankees swept the Red Sox 19-0 in regular season play by 20 runs per game, it still means nothing.

And you know that. I know that you know it, and so do all of the more frequent and insightful posters in this thread.

But it's all good, because both teams are 0-0 right now in all categories. 2007 is over, and the Hughes/Kennedy/Chamberlain/Cano vs.Buchholz/Lester/Papelbon/Pedroia era starts in earnest this April. I wouldn't have it any other way, and I know you wouldn't either.

What I find funny is how the Sox are getting all this deserved praise for their farm system and homegrown talent (which must be confusing you ;)) but the Yankees aren't getting as much credit. They may have a bit less talent on hand for trading purposes, but the guys I mentioned above all scare the crap out of me. They haven't been resting on their scouting laurels by any stretch. The next five years are going to give us more drawn out, fierce Red Sox / Yankees matchups.

(Hopefully with last year's outcome! :D)

[Point65]

Sox won the World Series. Yankees were the better team. That's all I've got right now unless I fall back on the cumulative titles thing...

You could just go with the "Who won the most in my lifetime?" angle. That way you still have the numbers you need to prove the point.:cool:

Friggin' Sox Fans

[orionquest]

You could just go with the "Who won the most in my lifetime?" angle. That way you still have the numbers you need to prove the point.:cool:

Friggin' Sox Fans

Please, tell me, oh enlightened one, what do the previous 100 years of baseball before 2007 have to do with the quality of the teams of 2007?

Friggin' Yankee Fans. ;)

[Mark Weber]

That's all well and good, Mark, but it doesn't prove anything. Had the Yankees swept the Red Sox 19-0 in regular season play by 20 runs per game, it still means nothing.

And you know that. I know that you know it, and so do all of the more frequent and insightful posters in this thread.

But it's all good, because both teams are 0-0 right now in all categories. 2007 is over, and the Hughes/Kennedy/Chamberlain/Cano vs.Buchholz/Lester/Papelbon/Pedroia era starts in earnest this April. I wouldn't have it any other way, and I know you wouldn't either.

What I find funny is how the Sox are getting all this deserved praise for their farm system and homegrown talent (which must be confusing you ;)) but the Yankees aren't getting as much credit. They may have a bit less talent on hand for trading purposes, but the guys I mentioned above all scare the crap out of me. They haven't been resting on their scouting laurels by any stretch. The next five years are going to give us more drawn out, fierce Red Sox / Yankees matchups.

(Hopefully with last year's outcome! :D)

Obviously I'd trade NYs season for Boston's last year, but I'm heartened for 2008 because the Yankees outplayed the Sox head-to-head in 2007, and ate your top four starters for lunch all year long (Beckett wasn't awful, but his numbers were down from his season average).

God willing, Boston won't see Chase Wright, Jeff Karstens or Mike Mussina in 2008 - but I'm pretty sure Beckett, Matsuzaka, Schilling & Wakefield (if he's healthy enough to pitch) are scheduled for more pinstriped beatings all season long...

[Al Snickkerson]

Trying real hard to find a silver lining I see. Steelers and Yankees fan so which NHL and NBA teams do you follow? Red Wings and Lakers?

[Bronx Bombers]

Well Im glad we got the better half of the whole Kennedy/Hughes/Chamberlain/Cano or Buchholz/Lester/Papelbon/Pedroia argument

[orionquest]

Well Im glad we got the better half of the whole Kennedy/Hughes/Chamberlain/Cano or Buchholz/Lester/Papelbon/Pedroia argument

I'm not so sure about that. We'll see what kind of starters Buchholz, Kennedy, Lester and Hughes mature into. With pitchers, you never know, and they both all go bust.

[Durstlimpbizkit]

I'm not so sure about that. We'll see what kind of starters Buchholz, Kennedy, Lester and Hughes mature into. With pitchers, you never know, and they both all go bust.

Absolutely, these guys could be the next Zach Duke, start off with a bunch of hype and then fizzle in a heartbeat.

[orionquest]

Obviously I'd trade NYs season for Boston's last year, but I'm heartened for 2008 because the Yankees outplayed the Sox head-to-head in 2007, and ate your top four starters for lunch all year long (Beckett wasn't awful, but his numbers were down from his season average).

God willing, Boston won't see Chase Wright, Jeff Karstens or Mike Mussina in 2008 - but I'm pretty sure Beckett, Matsuzaka, Schilling & Wakefield (if he's healthy enough to pitch) are scheduled for more pinstriped beatings all season long...

I don't think Wakefield is going to remain in the rotation. I think his age is catching up, knuckleball or not, and he'll be a sporadic influence.

Also, we'll see how the Yankee rotation holds up if the Sox feature a healthier Ortiz and Ramirez, plus Ellsbury in the lineup in place of Crisp. Part of the Yankees success against the Sox was due to when they faced them. Plus, how confident are you that Beckett and Matsuzaka will be off their game to the extent they were at those times last year? Will the Yankees find success? I'm sure. "Pinstriped beatings"? You're getting ahead of yourself, Mark.

For the record, we'll miss Chase Wright, Jeff Karstens and Mike Mussina. I don't think I'll ever witness back-to-back-to-back-to-back in Fenway ever again.

And, don't forget, you may just be facing John Santana, too. Time will tell. :D

(Then again, we may be facing him! <gulp!>)

[Bronx Bombers]

I'm not so sure about that. We'll see what kind of starters Buchholz, Kennedy, Lester and Hughes mature into. With pitchers, you never know, and they both all go bust.

You gotta admit though, Kennedy and Hughes have more potential snd more hype then Lester and Buchholz

[Bronx Bombers]

Anybody else think Carl Pavano is gonna come back strong next year?? Myabe its just wishful thinking but i think he might push for a spot in rotation

[pakalolo2]

Sox won the World Series. Yankees were the better team. That's all I've got right now unless I fall back on the cumulative titles thing...

Please explain- how does a better team NOT win the World Series? ... Let the excuses begin...

[pakalolo2]

Obviously I'd trade NYs season for Boston's last year, but I'm heartened for 2008 because the Yankees outplayed the Sox head-to-head in 2007, and ate your top four starters for lunch all year long (Beckett wasn't awful, but his numbers were down from his season average).

God willing, Boston won't see Chase Wright, Jeff Karstens or Mike Mussina in 2008 - but I'm pretty sure Beckett, Matsuzaka, Schilling & Wakefield (if he's healthy enough to pitch) are scheduled for more pinstriped beatings all season long...

To answer my question above, I guess it was God's will that the Sox won...

[orionquest]

You gotta admit though, Kennedy and Hughes have more potential snd more hype then Lester and Buchholz

Lester, yes. Buchholz, no. Buchholz is the most hyped pitching prospect in Boston since Clemens. Yes, since Clemens.

I'm not predicting he'll be anywhere near that good, but I'd never heard or read so much about one guy in Boston before he pitched his first MLB game.

[Bronx Bombers]

Lester, yes. Buchholz, no. Buchholz is the most hyped pitching prospect in Boston since Clemens. Yes, since Clemens.

I'm not predicting he'll be anywhere near that good, but I'd never heard or read so much about one guy in Boston before he pitched his first MLB game.

Well we've been hearing about Hughes before the season even started, #1 ranked pitching prospect last year and Kennedy just won MiLB pitcher of the year

[orionquest]

Well we've been hearing about Hughes before the season even started, #1 ranked pitching prospect last year and Kennedy just won MiLB pitcher of the year

Part of the issue is that both our teams garner so much media attention, that we don't get an unbiased sense of farm system reports. All three prospects were likely developing hype on the national scale, but nowhere near what we, as fans of our team, were reading and hearing.

[Mark Weber]

Part of the Yankees success against the Sox was due to when they faced them. Plus, how confident are you that Beckett and Matsuzaka will be off their game to the extent they were at those times last year? Will the Yankees find success? I'm sure. "Pinstriped beatings"? You're getting ahead of yourself, Mark.

Check the gamelog for last season OQ - 12 of the 18 Yankees/Red Sox games happened before June 3rd, and 10 of the 12 were started by Beckett/Matsuzka/Schilling/Wakefield (the other two starts were Julian Tavarez).

The Yankee lineup through June 3rd has compiled the following stats:

Posada - hitting .363 (finished the year at .333)
Mientkiewicz - hitting .226 (finished the year at .277)
Cano - hitting .265 (finished the year at .303)
Jeter - hitting .333 (finished the year at .322)
A-Rod - hitting .293 (finished the year at .314)
Matsui - hitting .284 (finished the year at .285)
Damon - hitting .251 (finished the year at .270)
Cabrera - hitting .248 (finished the year at .273)
Abreu - hitting .244 (finished the year at .283)

So 2/3 of the head-to-head matchups came in first 54 games of the season, while NY was 24-30 with an injury-decimated pitching staff and a lineup hitting a cumulative 153 points lower than how they would eventually finish the year. The frontloaded schedule ended up tremendously favorable to Boston (given NY's early pitching injuries), and Boston still dropped eight of the last ten meetings.

Buchholz and Lester better step up against NY last year, 'cause the other four guys are Christmas trees against the Yankees.

[GoNiners]

Anybody else think Carl Pavano is gonna come back strong next year?? Myabe its just wishful thinking but i think he might push for a spot in rotation

The only way money can be productive being wasted(which is what is happening with the Pavano deal) is if you burn it in a fireplace because atleast it keeps you warm.

[Bronx Bombers]

Well he wasnt exactly terrible before he got came to NY and got injured

[crushercreel]

Usually New York players rebound fast from injuries....hmmmm

[Captain]

Usually New York players rebound fast from injuries....hmmmm

lol, That is so uninformed and stretching for something to bash the Yankees about it is laughable. Have you paid attention during the last few seasons? I'd like to introduce you to someone who has made the DL his home: Carl Pavano, please step forward. The pitching injuries to NY were crazy, hence the Yankees setting a record for most rookie starters in a season. I don't think they set that record if their pitchers are coming back from injuries quick.:rolleyes: In addition, Mientkiewicz, Giambi, Matsui, Cano, Phillips, Sheffield, Jeter, and many more have had very long stays on the DL the past few seasons with things ranging from pulled muscles, muscle tears, broken bones, and numerous other ailments that saw them miss a couple months to ending their seasons. Because 1 pitcher admitted to doing HGH for two days does not make the entire team steroid users.

I would think you would enjoy the WS title your team won instead of making ridiculous assumptions about another team. Instead of putting NY down, try being happy for a championship that many teams have never even gotten a chance to play for.

[GoNiners]

Usually New York players rebound fast from injuries....hmmmm

Wasn't Eric Gagne in the Mitchell report too?

OMG THE 2007 RED SOX ARE ROID USERS!!!! OMGZ GUYS THEY ARE CHEATERS!!!

[Durstlimpbizkit]

lol, That is so uninformed and stretching for something to bash the Yankees about it is laughable. Have you paid attention during the last few seasons? I'd like to introduce you to someone who has made the DL his home: Carl Pavano, please step forward. The pitching injuries to NY were crazy, hence the Yankees setting a record for most rookie starters in a season. I don't think they set that record if their pitchers are coming back from injuries quick.:rolleyes: In addition, Mientkiewicz, Giambi, Matsui, Cano, Phillips, Sheffield, Jeter, and many more have had very long stays on the DL the past few seasons with things ranging from pulled muscles, muscle tears, broken bones, and numerous other ailments that saw them miss a couple months to ending their seasons. Because 1 pitcher admitted to doing HGH for two days does not make the entire team steroid users.

I would think you would enjoy the WS title your team won instead of making ridiculous assumptions about another team. Instead of putting NY down, try being happy for a championship that many teams have never even gotten a chance to play for.

Good stuff man. good stuff.

Wasn't Eric Gagne in the Mitchell report too?

OMG THE 2007 RED SOX ARE ROID USERS!!!! OMGZ GUYS THEY ARE CHEATERS!!!

CONSPIRACY!

[BurningSoul]

thats why Brendon Donnelly was so dominant! :D

[pakalolo2]

Sox won the World Series. Yankees were the better team. That's all I've got right now unless I fall back on the cumulative titles thing...

Are you counting the TAINTED tiltles?

[pakalolo2]

Check the gamelog for last season OQ - 12 of the 18 Yankees/Red Sox games happened before June 3rd, and 10 of the 12 were started by Beckett/Matsuzka/Schilling/Wakefield (the other two starts were Julian Tavarez).

The Yankee lineup through June 3rd has compiled the following stats:

Posada - hitting .363 (finished the year at .333)
Mientkiewicz - hitting .226 (finished the year at .277)
Cano - hitting .265 (finished the year at .303)
Jeter - hitting .333 (finished the year at .322)
A-Rod - hitting .293 (finished the year at .314)
Matsui - hitting .284 (finished the year at .285)
Damon - hitting .251 (finished the year at .270)
Cabrera - hitting .248 (finished the year at .273)
Abreu - hitting .244 (finished the year at .283)

So 2/3 of the head-to-head matchups came in first 54 games of the season, while NY was 24-30 with an injury-decimated pitching staff and a lineup hitting a cumulative 153 points lower than how they would eventually finish the year. The fontloaded schedule ended up tremendously favorable to Boston (given NY's early pitching injuries), and Boston still dropped eight of the last ten meetings.

Buchholz and Lester better step up against NY last year, 'cause the other four guys are Christmas trees against the Yankees.

Not sure if you heard this before, but games in April count as much as September, so if the Yankees aren't ready when the season starts, or if the steroids haven't kicked in yet, that not the Sox problem, so deal with it...

[Mark Weber]

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/3d526f2f94_manny2_03052008.jpg

I thought about posting about the unusual hotel activities by Boston's scouting staff, the high-pitched whine coming out of Papelbon's mouth, or the shameful way the Sox have treated Curt Schilling, but that Manny picture seemed like the best warm-up.

[BurningSoul]

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/3d526f2f94_manny2_03052008.jpg

OK, now he's just approaching Cecil and Prince Fielder fat.

[matzushocka]

I saw a recent pic of Man-ram and he looked ripped.

[Mark Weber]

Ripped as in drunk?

I love that you happily call him Man-Ram.

[ToightLikeATiger]

Oh look Mark is back and he needs attention. Figured as much when this thread was bumped from the depths of nowhere.

[pakalolo2]

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/3d526f2f94_manny2_03052008.jpg

I thought about posting about the unusual hotel activities by Boston's scouting staff, the high-pitched whine coming out of Papelbon's mouth, or the shameful way the Sox have treated Curt Schilling, but that Manny picture seemed like the best warm-up.

I thought about posting Andy Pettitte admitting to cheating with the rest of team HGH or the FACT that the Yankees are a bunch of known steroid users, but you already know that...happy 2008...

[Mark Weber]

Oh look Mark is back and he needs attention. Figured as much when this thread was bumped from the depths of nowhere.

Jeez - why so bitter? Oh wait, I got it...

The thread got bumped because of new info. I had no idea Manny reported to Spring Training in such terrible shape. More to come...

[Mark Weber]

From ESPN.com:

Jonathan Papelbon (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7614) wants a new contract before Thursday, when the Red Sox plan to renew contracts of any unsigned players. He doesn't have any leverage.Because he didn't have enough major league service time to be eligible for arbitration, the team can decide on his 2008 salary. After this season, the star closer will be eligible for arbitration.

Last year, Papelbon was paid $425,500. He finished the season with 37 saves in 40 opportunities and a 1.85 ERA. He struck out the last batter of the World Series in Boston's sweep of Colorado, earning his third save in the four games.

Mariano Rivera (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5400), the dominant closer for the New York Yankees (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy), signed a three-year, $45 million after last season, his 13th.

Papelbon's 37 saves were tied for sixth in the AL. He wants to establish a salary standard for future outstanding closers.

"I feel a certain obligation not only to myself and my family to make the money that I deserve but for the game of baseball." Papelbon said. "Mariano Rivera has been doing it for the past 10 years and with me coming up behind him I feel a certain obligation to do the same."

Yes, the game of baseball will certainly be slighted if Boston doesn't give Paypelbon more money before he's eligible for arbitration.

[Tanner2126]

I think thats just a bad pic of him.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080221/capt.9b9b84b15e074eca9527c6037c70b49d.red_sox_spring_baseball_flbo102.jpg

He doesnt look that fat in this pic.

[ComradeFlyer]

are you that desperate for something mark?

did you catch Jr's waistline?

http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/FLAB113030418_1024x768.jpg

his neck is kind of chunky too. maybe you should look into it?

http://images.sportsline.com/u/gettyimages/photos/GYI0051527508030416_lower.jpg

http://images.sportsline.com/u/gettyimages/photos/GYI0051527649030417_lower.jpg



but man, lets look at manny, that tub of goo....

http://images.sportsline.com/u/gettyimages/photos/GYI0051527896030417_1024x768.jpg

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[ToightLikeATiger]

Jeez - why so bitter? Oh wait, I got it...

The thread got bumped because of new info. I had no idea Manny reported to Spring Training in such terrible shape. More to come...

You posted garbage. Manny is actually in great shape and worked out hard this offseason. So your picture doesnt do him justice at all.

Papelbon deserves more money and has every right to want it. He is one of the best closers in baseball. Mariano Rivera wanted more money in spring training last year also. Noone made a big deal about it. He deserved more money as well.

So why is it a big deal a great player wants more money then what he is making from his rookie contract. If Troy Tulowitski can get paid why cant guys who are better like Papelbon. Prince Fielder is in the same situation. He deserves more money as well and has every right to ask.

Papelbon isnt going to be a problem because he wants more money so I dont get where you are trying to bash the Red Sox or Papelbon with that story.

Im not bitter at all btw...I just think its sad that you come back here and bump this thread and post garbage. You arent even moderator anymore. I think you miss the negative attention you got on the board with threads like this so you had to come back and get some.

[matzushocka]

Ripped as in drunk?

I love that you happily call him Man-Ram.


No way he was all muscle, I think I saw it on Dirtdogs or something. :)

[Mark Weber]

You posted garbage. Manny is actually in great shape and worked out hard this offseason. So your picture doesnt do him justice at all.

I'm sorry that "my picture doesn't do him justice." I ran across a photo of Manny today and he looked really chunky, so I thought I'd post it in the trash-talking thread.

Papelbon deserves more money and has every right to want it. He is one of the best closers in baseball. Mariano Rivera wanted more money in spring training last year also. Noone made a big deal about it. He deserved more money as well.

Papelbon is underpaid if MLB's salary structure were wide open, but as it is he's not even eligible for arbitration until next year. Complaining about it publicly makes him look greedy and malcontent. Rivera wanted an extension to his contract last year after twelve seasons of service. I don't recall Rivera complaining about making "scale" after 1997, or that he needed more money because he "feels a certain obligation ...for the game of baseball."

So why is it a big deal a great player wants more money then what he is making from his rookie contract. If Troy Tulowitski can get paid why cant guys who are better like Papelbon. Prince Fielder is in the same situation. He deserves more money as well and has every right to ask.

Papelbon isnt going to be a problem because he wants more money so I dont get where you are trying to bash the Red Sox or Papelbon with that story.

Asking for a raise is no big deal, but making taking it to the press is a weak move, especially when you have utterly zero leverage other than the "I'll remember this" card. Saying that you need more cash as some sort of "obligation to baseball" is asinine. Fielder's complaints make him look childish as well, but I don't post in the Brewers trash-talking thread.

Im not bitter at all btw...I just think its sad that you come back here and bump this thread and post garbage. You arent even moderator anymore. I think you miss the negative attention you got on the board with threads like this so you had to come back and get some.

Your post sounded bitter, and this one does too. When I announced I wouldn't be moderating the board anymore, I also said I'd still be around to chat with collectors and talk sports. This post is where I do my Red Sox bashing - you don't have to visit here, and you don't even need to read my posts now since I "arent even moderator anymore" so you can always put me ignore if you'd rather not read my posts.

If you're determined to try and volley my anti-Sox posts, be my guest. OrionQuest and I have gone toe-to-toe for a few years without it getting personal, so it CAN be done. Believe me, I don't miss the negative attention some boardies lobbed at me - but I'm absolutely ready for another season throwing at (and dodging darts from) Red Sox fans.

On an unrelated note, how do you feel about the way the Red Sox are handling Curt Schilling's shoulder injury?

[Mark Weber]

are you that desperate for something mark?

did you catch Jr's waistline?

http://images.sportsline.com/u/gettyimages/photos/GYI0051527508030416_lower.jpg

his neck is kind of chunky too. maybe you should look into it?



http://images.sportsline.com/u/gettyimages/photos/GYI0051527649030417_lower.jpg



but man, lets look at manny, that tub of goo....

http://images.sportsline.com/u/gettyimages/photos/GYI0051527896030417_1024x768.jpg

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Griffey looks chunky - if I were you, I'd post that in the Reds trash-talking thread. What's your point?

[GOD ALL MIGHTY]

http://66.79.163.197/_images/articles/2008/02/29/hank.jpg

Change the hair to red and we could have a weber twin. Both have come out firing about red sox nation maybe for attention? Who knows? I hear Torre loves the West coast. Smart move getting out of NY. If my team was filled with liars and cheats I think I would take less money and go elsewhere. After all the owner of the Dodgers comes from Boston and we know how to win in Boston. Manny.... World Series MVP..... and he could be the first player in history to hit his 500th home run at Fenway. I have to say getting Manny instead of Moose really paid off. What has Moose ever done? NOTHING! \\
same old song and dance in NY. NEED PITCHING....NEED PITCHING

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/BDD_HS_pink_3.2.08.jpg



RED SOX NATION

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/BDD_foundingfathers_FG_2.29.jpg



Sorry Yankees Fans ... This Isn't 1978

"The Yankees are old, injury-prone and, in some cases, shadows of their former selves. Ron Guidry is a 56-year-old pitching coach, not a 27-year-old phenom in the midst of one of the greatest seasons in baseball history.

But the main reason the Yanks won't catch the Red Sox is Boston is built for the long haul in 2007, a perfect blend of starting pitching, relief pitching, hitting and defense."--



2008 should not be any diffrent.....

[Bronx Bombers]

We know how to win in Boston? Maybe over the last 4 years but where were they the Century before that? And you just sound like a bigger idiot because Guidry isnt even our pitching coach

[Mark Weber]

GAM I'm not sure what you think you proved in that post (other than making the discussion unnecessarily personal, showcasing someone else's terrible photoshop skills as well as Boston's sweet little pink hat, and a cartoonist who should be fired - I can pick out Ortiz and that's about it). I've been railing against Boston on this board since my arrival in April 2003, long before Boston fans felt a need to legitimize themselves by dubbing themselves RED SOX NATION. Everytime I read that self-gloss (nod to Jim Rome) it makes me laugh. Not because it isn't true, but because of the Sox fans who felt the need to embrace it to legitimize themselves.

Before you give John Henry too much credit, do a little bit of research and learn where he cut his baseball teeth...

And what do YOU think about how Boston is handling Curt Schilling's shoulder injury? I can't seem to get much feedback on that from the RED SOX NATION...

[ComradeFlyer]

We know how to win in Boston? Maybe over the last 4 years but where were they the Century before that? And you just sound like a bigger idiot because Guidry isnt even our pitching coach

its a quote.... and cling to the past much?

[ComradeFlyer]

Griffey looks chunky - if I were you, I'd post that in the Reds trash-talking thread. What's your point?

the point is, you're a grown man. what are you doing writing about another man's body on a message board? you see one picture, thats flys in contrast to all other pictures and media reports that manny has come to camp in amazing shape, and decide to run with it. grasp at straws harder mark, you're just about holding yourself up.

[Captain]

Change the hair to red and we could have a weber twin. Both have come out firing about red sox nation maybe for attention? Who knows? I hear Torre loves the West coast. Smart move getting out of NY. If my team was filled with liars and cheats I think I would take less money and go elsewhere. After all the owner of the Dodgers comes from Boston and we know how to win in Boston. Manny.... World Series MVP..... and he could be the first player in history to hit his 500th home run at Fenway. I have to say getting Manny instead of Moose really paid off. What has Moose ever done? NOTHING! \\
same old song and dance in NY. NEED PITCHING....NEED PITCHING[/IMG]

"We" (Boston I presume) know how to win in Boston? Well, duh! I would hope they can win a few of their 82+ home games a year.

I'm also so sure that no player on the Red Sox has ever lied or cheated in any way, especially since 2004.:rolleyes: If you want to take the Mitchell Report as being completely true, what about the communication by the Red Sox higher-ups regarding Eric Gagne (confirming continued steroid use & acquiring him anyway)?

Congrats on giving Manny a $200M contract, I'm not really sure how that would make you feel better, but whatever works for you I guess. How many times were the Red Sox practically giving him away as well as Manny demanding to be traded the last 8 years?

Since you want to take personal shots at Mark, I have a personal question for you: What is up with your board name? I would love to know the story behind it.

[Mark Weber]

"The Yankees are old, injury-prone and, in some cases, shadows of their former selves. Ron Guidry is a 56-year-old pitching coach, not a 27-year-old phenom in the midst of one of the greatest seasons in baseball history.

But the main reason the Yanks won't catch the Red Sox is Boston is built for the long haul in 2007, a perfect blend of starting pitching, relief pitching, hitting and defense."--

2008 should not be any diffrent.....

There's a key difference between the "Yankees are old" comment about the 2007 team versus the 2008 squad. The establishment of Cano & Cabrera as well as the debuts of Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy have made NY a more youthful squad.

If you're determined to cast the 2008 Yankees as OLD, compare their key 17 players (nine positional starters plus one platoon, six starting pitchers, one DH and their closer) to Boston's. For the record that's:

Posada/Duncan/Giambi/Cano/Jeter/Rodriguez/Damon/Cabrera/Abreu/Matsui
Wang/Pettitte/Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy/Mussina/Rivera: Average age 31.05 years

Tek/Youk/Destroya/Lugo/Lowell/ManRam/Crisp/Ellsbury/Drew/Papi
Beckett/Dice-K/Schilling/Buchholz/Lester/Wakefield/Papelbon: Average age 30.4 years

In fairness, that number could come down for Boston if Schilling doesn't pitch this year.

[Mark Weber]

the point is, you're a grown man. what are you doing writing about another man's body on a message board? you see one picture, thats flys in contrast to all other pictures and media reports that manny has come to camp in amazing shape, and decide to run with it. grasp at straws harder mark, you're just about holding yourself up.

Please. If A-Rod showed up at Yankees camp looking flabby you wouldn't mention it? There's not much else to work with this early in Spring Training, but if you'd rather not discuss Manny's weight let's try something different:

How do you feel about the way Boston has handled Curt Schilling's shoulder injury?

[Captain]

Papelbon is underpaid if MLB's salary structure were wide open, but as it is he's not even eligible for arbitration until next year. Complaining about it publicly makes him look greedy and malcontent. Rivera wanted an extension to his contract last year after twelve seasons of service. I don't recall Rivera complaining about making "scale" after 1997, or that he needed more money because he "feels a certain obligation ...for the game of baseball."

Asking for a raise is no big deal, but making taking it to the press is a weak move, especially when you have utterly zero leverage other than the "I'll remember this" card. Saying that you need more cash as some sort of "obligation to baseball" is asinine. Fielder's complaints make him look childish as well, but I don't post in the Brewers trash-talking thread.

Very good points, Mark. I was laughing when I read Pap's comments. Someone should tell him that 2 good seasons does not make him the best closer ever. Comparing himself right now to Mariano Rivera is also laughable. He should talk again if he gets 400 more saves, then he can start thinking about comparing himself and Mariano. I don't ever remember Mariano pulling this kind of attention-seeking, "I'm the best" garbage during his first few years in the majors.

On an unrelated note, how do you feel about the way the Red Sox are handling Curt Schilling's shoulder injury?

I would love to know how the Red Sox fans on the board feel about this.

IMO, Schilling should be able to do what is best for his long-term health. If doctors are saying he needs surgery or there could be serious ramifications, I don't think there should even be a discussion about his treatment. After all he has done for that franchise, I actually feel sorry for Curt having to go through this (and I am the farthest thing from a Schilling fan). I think Boston is being callous and disrespectful to force him to use rehab alone on such a serious injury. It seems like they care more about the money they spent rather than his well-being. I think Carl Pavano is getting better treatment by the Yankee brass than Schilling is from Boston's, despite the polar-opposite tenures.:eek: Honestly, I'm glad I'm not a Red Sox fan because I don't think there is any way I could justify what Theo Epstein & ownership are doing in this situation.

[ComradeFlyer]

Please. If A-Rod showed up at Yankees camp looking flabby you wouldn't mention it? There's not much else to work with this early in Spring Training, but if you'd rather not discuss Manny's weight let's try something different:

How do you feel about the way Boston has handled Curt Schilling's shoulder injury?

I don't pay attention to the Yankees until the season starts. And should you have asked me if I A-rod looked bad in a picture, would I mention it? Manny isn't out of shape, so its a non-story that you decided to comment on.

How do I feel about the way Boston is handling Curt's shoulder injury? I don't like it. We've asked him to not get surgery because we want to be tight-asses with money all of a sudden... apprently getting something out of our investment this season is worth casting his career in doubt. I'm very disappointed in the Sox front office. Surgery seems like the best option for Curt to have any success left in his career.

[Captain]

How do I feel about the way Boston is handling Curt's shoulder injury? I don't like it. We've asked him to not get surgery because we want to be tight-asses with money all of a sudden... apprently getting something out of our investment this season is worth casting his career in doubt. I'm very disappointed in the Sox front office. Surgery seems like the best option for Curt to have any success left in his career.

I completely agree with you, Comrade. Well said.

[pakalolo2]

What do real Yankee fans feel about Pettitte and all the drug using Yankees?

[pakalolo2]

Oh look Mark is back and he needs attention. Figured as much when this thread was bumped from the depths of nowhere.

For once I agree with you...

[pakalolo2]

Griffey looks chunky - if I were you, I'd post that in the Reds trash-talking thread. What's your point?

His point was comparing Manny's body with Griffeys, since you posted that pic first with the HEY HEY HEY title...so funny with the Fat Albert refrence!

[pakalolo2]

Please. If A-Rod showed up at Yankees camp looking flabby you wouldn't mention it? There's not much else to work with this early in Spring Training, but if you'd rather not discuss Manny's weight let's try something different:

How do you feel about the way Boston has handled Curt Schilling's shoulder injury?

How do you feel about all the illegal drug usage by you Yankees?

[Rich Zufelt]

Mark Weber. email me
emt2707@aol.com

[Mark Weber]

Theo Epstein, horn-tooting...

"It was a good feeling this winter not to be dependent on the free-agent pitching market, for example, or need to go get a player at one position," Epstein said. "That's how you stay a successful franchise, by thinking a couple of years ahead and not being cornered into a difficult place in the market."

Please. Schilling and Lowell didn't count as free agent signings? Both gave Boston a hometown discount to stay, and the BoSox repaid Schilling by forcing him to rehab a shoulder that he and his doctor believe needs surgery in what's supposed to be his final season.

[dirtysox]

And what do YOU think about how Boston is handling Curt Schilling's shoulder injury? I can't seem to get much feedback on that from the RED SOX NATION...

I think it's being handled terribly.
He won't be able to pitch by the All-Star break... Actually, he'll be lucky to pitch this year at all.
I think the Sox brass is just trying to save face and make it seem as though they didn't screw anything up in their own physical when they signed him to a contract.

My somewhat educated guess (Have gone through shoulder labrum surgery and am still going through rehab myself), is that he will get strong enough to the point where he thinks he can come back, and then re-injure himself.

[Mark Weber]

I haven't rooted for Boston a day in my life, but I've ALWAYS liked Schilling and if this is the way his career ends it'd be a damn shame.

[dirtysox]

Couldn't agree more.

[orionquest]

The BoSox repaid Schilling by forcing him to rehab a shoulder that he and his doctor believe needs surgery in what's supposed to be his final season.

Where did you read or hear this, Mark? I know that there have been reports that Schilling's doctor wants him to have surgery, but I never recall reading anything stating or inferring that Curt himself wants surgery and the Red Sox have either convinced or forced him otherwise. Schilling never stated anything like this in his blog (http://38pitches.com/2008/02/19/update-2/) entries (http://38pitches.com/2008/02/07/my-shoulder/), and we all know how outspoken he is.

Is there anything your boss is discussing with his new business partner? ;)

[pakalolo2]

I haven't rooted for Boston a day in my life, but I've ALWAYS liked Schilling and if this is the way his career ends it'd be a damn shame.

Would you rather he take HGH and go out like a saint?

[Bronx Bombers]

Damn April 11th seems soo far away:(

[GOD ALL MIGHTY]

I like the move of having Schilling rehab and coming back in the 2nd half. Why risk losing him for a year and maybe forever if he has the operation. Roll the dice...If they have a chance to win back to back championships then go for it. Rest him , pitch him and maybe he can come on strong for the playoffs. It also gives the young pitchers in the farm system a spot to get their noodles wet in the big leagues.

Its about this season not the next year and so on.. Yankee fans shuold understand that, since they spent over 1 BILLION dollars (since the last championship) for players who cheat, lie ,for thier best interest in the name of fat wallets. Pinstripes use to mean something. (should change them to $$$$ signs)
Now its where people go to get a paycheck a nice one. Maybe shot up some band substance, rub some cream on. It use to be a place where they would go to get championships, not any more, Its nice to see Cashman took Theo's blue print and decided to keep the youth for a change. Santana would have been a tough challage and would give the Yankees a Ace they have lacked for a very long time now.
That puts alot of pressure on the pitchers. Wang is not an ace. Hughes has the ability..But I think I would have gone for Santana if I was the Yankees GM. He would not lose at home in NY.

[quiggle]

Red Sox manager will be managing the All Star game in Yankee Stadium :p

[Tanner2126]

Mussina responds to Theo Epstein
February 26, 2008 2:45PM


Theo Epstein, general manager of the Boston Red Sox, called Yankees pitcher Mike Mussina a "bad apple" for complaining about the team's trip to Japan in 2004.

The Red Sox open this season against the Oakland A's in Japan. Appearing on Boston radio station WEEI last Friday, Epstein said, "Kevin Brown and Mike Mussina spent the whole time *****ing about it ... and by the time the Yankees team got back from the trip they were all using it as a crutch."

Told of the comments, Mussina said sarcastically, "Yeah, we used it as an excuse for winning the division."

Epstein had been praising his players for their attitude about the trip.

"The research that we've done on the Japan trip from the teams that have previously gone," Epstein said, "is one or two bad apples can spoil the lot."

Said Mussina: "You need a comment from me about him calling me a bad apple? I don't have one."

http://blog.nj.com/ledgeryankees/2008/02/mussina_responds_to_theo_epste.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"It's probably the best thing for us right now," Kevin Youkilis said. "A lot of us are tired. We're ready to go home. All these different countries, different currencies, I'm kind of sick of it."

"That's kind of to be expected with the toll the trip takes," Drew said. "We're finally at the end of it, so it's back on track when we get to Boston."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=280406114

Looks like a couple of Red Soxs know how the Yankees felt.

[quiggle]

remember when Mussina complained about a pregame ceremony delaying him by about fifteen minutes throwing off his flow

[BurningSoul]

I believe Giambi and Ortiz are trying to battle it out for lowest batting average in the league. .050 and .079....lol

[EastcoastSean]

I believe Giambi and Ortiz are trying to battle it out for lowest batting average in the league. .050 and .079....lol

Your not kidding......both are in a bad funk..........

[BurningSoul]

I wish I got paid $25 million to bat .050 Where the hell is Duncan? Does Ensberg play any 1st. He's hit pretty well. Jason Lane has 4 homers for Scranton/Wilkes right now, even he's a better choice.

[EastcoastSean]

HR by Drew...ties the game at 1 all.

[BurningSoul]

Wang has pitched one hell of a game so far. If we could only get some run support.

[BurningSoul]

lol, must have pissed Giambi off....HE HOMERED! 3-1 Yanks

[BurningSoul]

only 70 pitches for Wang in 7 innings of work so far

[ogrjmj]

go wang go!!!

[BurningSoul]

Wang: 79 pitches through 8, 1 hit, 1 run 0 walks...you've got to bring him back out there.

[BurningSoul]

Complete game 2 hitter for Wang in 93 pitches. He's 3-0 with a 1.23 ERA so far this year. Oh yeah, Yanks 1 Boston 0 so far this year. :)

[Bronx Bombers]

Chien-Ming Wang has to be the best "non ace" pitcher ever

[EastcoastSean]

great game by Wang........different story tomorrow with Mussina vs Beckett

[worldsfinest]

LETS GO YANKEES.

Wang pitched a Hell of a game.93 pitches of 2 hit baseball.One game down 2 more to go.

[GoNiners]

for players who cheat, lie ,for thier best interest in the name of fat wallets.

Are you kidding me? Remember the Eric Gagne section of the Mitchell report?

Ill type it in all caps so you understand it better.

THEO EPSTEIN KNEW ERIC GAGNE WAS ON STEROIDS.

And what happened?

EPSTEIN TRADED FOR GAGNE KNOWING HE USED ROIDS AND DIDNT HAVE THE CONFIDENCE WITHOUT THEM.

Atleast the argument can be made that the Yankees didnt know about the steroid issues of their mitchell report players. Two of the three big ones even apologized for it. The third one is denying til he dies.

EDIT: so people know what Im talking about.

Page 267 of the report if you are reading the pdf.

When the Boston Red Sox were considering acquiring Gagne, a Red Sox offical made specific inquiries about Gagne's possible use of steroids. In a November 1, 2006 e-mail to a Red Sox scout, general manager Theo Epstein asked, "Have you done any digging on Gagne? I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What did you hear on his medical?". The scout, Mark Delpiano, replied;

Some digging on Gagne and steroids IS the issue. Has had a checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues. Lacks poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body and reinvent self. What made him a tenacious closer was max effort plus stuff........ Mentality without the plus weapons and without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back durability and ability to throw average while allowing the change up to play as it once did.....Personally Durability(or lack thereof) will follow Gagne...

In order to provide Gagne with information about these allegations and to give him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he declined.

[EastcoastSean]

Yeah, so? Gagne sucks.......he didn't help the sox at all. He blew a ton of games and is a fat pant load. He sucks again this year with the Brewers....he is doing the same thing their. He is a cheat who acn't pitch without his "juice".

[Bronx Bombers]

So its alright to cheat if your a Red Sox who sucks?

[GoNiners]

Yeah, so? Gagne sucks.......he didn't help the sox at all. He blew a ton of games and is a fat pant load. He sucks again this year with the Brewers....he is doing the same thing their. He is a cheat who acn't pitch without his "juice".

He had said that the Yankees were spending billions on cheaters as if they knew for sure those players were juicing. That is why I mentioned the part of the Mitchell report where Epstein KNEW that Gagne uses steroids because of his lack of commitment to stay healthy to get more confidence. Knowing that he actually traded for Gagne. If he did good for you guys or sucked for you guys Epstein still knowingly traded for someone who had his best days while taking steroids. At least you can make the argument that the Yankees might not have been aware of the use of Clemens, Pettitte, and Giambi(especially since there isn't a report of that in that Mitchell report).

I know it hurts to have common sense introduced into an argument but I am sure you have enough education to read.

[GoNiners]

Now I am not saying for a fact that the Yankees didnt know. But if sports fans are going to hammer the Pats for spygate though there is a chance that every other team does it or if they are gonna hammer the 49ers for that tampering charge though tampering is rampant than why do the Red Sox get a pass?

[EastcoastSean]

who cares? move on.........its a brand new year! It's going to be an exciting year and some great baseball will be played. Go SOX !!!!

[EastcoastSean]

How about Big Papi.......he can't get a hit to save his life right now. Ouch!!!! 1 & 2 with no outs, and a 3 balls, 1 strike count......Papi hits into a check swing double play.....damn

[ToightLikeATiger]

What does Epstein knowing Gagne used steroids in the past have to do with anything? When they traded for him last year he wasnt on them any longer. So what if it was in his past. He was cheating while playing with the Red Sox. Everyone deserves a second chance. Guys who used steroids in the past shouldnt be crucified because it wasnt something that the league or other players looked down upon at that time. Now is a different story and anyone getting caught should be punished and looked at differently.

Lets not go overboard though saying the Red Sox knowingly signed/traded for a guy that used steroids when talking about Gagne. What Gagne did was in the past. The Red Sox traded for a clean Eric Gagne. Obviously he sucks when he pitches without roids.

[Tanner2126]

I never wanted Papi up soo much in that atbat!:D;)

[quiggle]

why not walk Manny? :rolleyes: cost the Yankees the game

[Tanner2126]

i dont get it:mad:

[Bronx Bombers]

why not walk Manny? :rolleyes: cost the Yankees the game

No it did not

[Tanner2126]

Arod will tie it up!

[quiggle]

another run for Boston 4-2

[Tanner2126]

Arod will tie it up!

No he wont:mad:

[quiggle]

Cano doubles! bye Beckett

[Tanner2126]

always with 2 outs! come on arod!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bronx Bombers]

HUGE at bat for for A-Rod after the delay. I hope the delay throws off Papelbon

[quiggle]

how long is this delay

[worldsfinest]

Hurry up with the damn rain delay.Id rather watch the yanks sit on the bench then watch the Rockies.

[Tanner2126]

30 minutes till the heavy rain. They said that storm will be over quick.

[quiggle]

ten minutes

[quiggle]

game's resuming in a couple of minutes

[Tanner2126]

GAME ON!!! LETS GO AROD!!!!

[quiggle]

A-Rod strikes out :mad: this is what I waited two hours for?

[Donnellk13]

i seen that coming

[Todd13]

:D

[Tanner2126]

:(

[Tanner2126]

Matsui should have batted for Giambi. Giambi sucks!!!!!

[quiggle]

Red Sox win!

[Tanner2126]

WHAT THE HELL!!!!!??? NASCAR IS ON!!!

[Tanner2126]

ok it moved to fx!

[ogrjmj]

god damn fox!!! who cares about one lap of nascrap?

[ogrjmj]

where? i dont know where the hell that is?

[ogrjmj]

oh well its over

[quiggle]

the local papers will grill Girardi on why he didn't choose to walk Manny

[ToightLikeATiger]

Papelbon was impressive as usual tonight. Sucks he had to get up to warm up 3 times because of the delay. He wont be available for tomorrow thats for sure. Hopefully Delcarmen can get the job done if Boston needs a save.

[worldsfinest]

Well games over.Terrible that the yanks lost.I really believe if it was for that damn Wall the Bostons have Yanks would have won the game.I think MLB should look into putting up a line on the green Monster cause in any other ballpark alot of the high hits on the wall would be out of the park.

[Todd13]

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/toddrichman/1208036030_4782.jpg
Manny!!! Now if only Big Papi can get going

[Elias_Devil]

Well games over.Terrible that the yanks lost.I really believe if it was for that damn Wall the Bostons have Yanks would have won the game.I think MLB should look into putting up a line on the green Monster cause in any other ballpark alot of the high hits on the wall would be out of the park.

But there are balls that leave the Monster that wouldn't leave other parks because it's such a short distance.

[ToightLikeATiger]

Well games over.Terrible that the yanks lost.I really believe if it was for that damn Wall the Bostons have Yanks would have won the game.I think MLB should look into putting up a line on the green Monster cause in any other ballpark alot of the high hits on the wall would be out of the park.

LOL! that is the weakest excuse and comment I have ever heard. Its part of the park and its unique and great. Like the last guy said... yes some hard hit balls that would be homers are only doubles at Fenway. But some homeruns at Fenway are just fly ball outs in other parks. It works both ways and for both teams. MLB should do absolutely nothing about it because its been that way for a very long time.

Yankees lost today because the Red Sox were the better team. Just like the Red Sox lost last night because the Yankees were the better team. Nothing else involved.

[Bronx Bombers]

Can't wait for tomorrows game. If we have the lead after 6, and Hughes can do exactly that, the game is virtually over. With Joba The Yankees have the best back end of the bullpen in the league and with the way Moose has been pitching Justin Louis should stay there

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

I can't believe they finished the game, if the score was flipped I bet they call it.

[Todd13]

Can't wait for tomorrows game. If we have the lead after 6, and Hughes can do exactly that, the game is virtually over. With Joba The Yankees have the best back end of the bullpen in the league and with the way Moose has been pitching Justin Louis should stay thereLOL!

[TastySweetNutz]

Well games over.Terrible that the yanks lost.I really believe if it was for that damn Wall the Bostons have Yanks would have won the game.I think MLB should look into putting up a line on the green Monster cause in any other ballpark alot of the high hits on the wall would be out of the park.

:confused: Did you just start watching baseball because the monster has been there for ages.

[Vinnie4]

The wall had nothing to do with the loss. The 2 hour rain delay sucked. It killed the Yankee rally.

[quiggle]

this did not take long


http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/04/13/gal_bp_04_13_2008.jpg

[Bronx Bombers]

LOL!

What two people are better than Joba and Rivera?? The Mariners have Putz but they don't have Joba, the Red Sox have Paplebon but they dont have Joba either. No other team has a Joba AND a Mo

[ToightLikeATiger]

What two people are better than Joba and Rivera?? The Mariners have Putz but they don't have Joba, the Red Sox have Paplebon but they dont have Joba either. No other team has a Joba AND a Mo

Red Sox have Papelbon and Okajima. No Okie isnt a fireballer like Joba but he gets the job done plain and simple. He was an allstar last year and he was amazing all year. Papelbon right now is a better closer then Rivera as well. Of course Rivera is better overall career wise but at this stage in his career I am talking about. Also dont get me wrong Rivera is still very very good. Other then Papelbon and Nathan I wouldnt want another closer then Rivera on my team.

Dont underestimate the combo of Papelbon and Okajima though. They are right up there with any setup/closer combo.

[ToightLikeATiger]

The wall had nothing to do with the loss. The 2 hour rain delay sucked. It killed the Yankee rally.

Papelbon would have killed the rally anyway. The rain delay could have helped the Yankees as well. There was question after warming up 3 times if Papelbon could have pitched. They had Paps in a good position to get to him and they didnt. Arod struck out on 3 pitches. Rain delay had nothing to do with that. Hitters can keep sharp in the cages during a delay. Pitchers shouldnt be getting up and down with full warm ups 3 times.

It was a great game yesterday. Good pitching and good defense all around for both teams. Rain delay or not the outcome would have been the same.

Tonight should be fun as well. Dice-K pitching very well to start the season vs Phil Hughes who is the next big Yankees pitcher (or atleast should be from what I have seen and heard).

Hopefully somewhere down the line we can get a Hughes vs Bucholtz matchup.

[Bronx Bombers]

Red Sox have Papelbon and Okajima. No Okie isnt a fireballer like Joba but he gets the job done plain and simple. He was an allstar last year and he was amazing all year. Papelbon right now is a better closer then Rivera as well. Of course Rivera is better overall career wise but at this stage in his career I am talking about. Also dont get me wrong Rivera is still very very good. Other then Papelbon and Nathan I wouldnt want another closer then Rivera on my team.

Dont underestimate the combo of Papelbon and Okajima though. They are right up there with any setup/closer combo.

I wanna see how Okajima does his second time around. Last year when the he came in the game was over, this year i dont think he will have the same sucess. But who knows. And theres no other combo i would take over Joba and Rivera. Joba because of his stuff, age and potential, Mo because he is still up there as the one of the best closers in baseball and because of his track record. I think we will see Joba tonight if the score is close in any direction, should be interesting if he throws up and in on anyone

[Bronx Bombers]

Papelbon would have killed the rally anyway. The rain delay could have helped the Yankees as well. There was question after warming up 3 times if Papelbon could have pitched. They had Paps in a good position to get to him and they didnt. Arod struck out on 3 pitches. Rain delay had nothing to do with that. Hitters can keep sharp in the cages during a delay. Pitchers shouldnt be getting up and down with full warm ups 3 times.

It was a great game yesterday. Good pitching and good defense all around for both teams. Rain delay or not the outcome would have been the same.

Tonight should be fun as well. Dice-K pitching very well to start the season vs Phil Hughes who is the next big Yankees pitcher (or atleast should be from what I have seen and heard).

Hopefully somewhere down the line we can get a Hughes vs Bucholtz matchup.

I really wanna see a Hughes - Buchholz game too. I think Hughes is and will have a better career though. Buchholz needs to learn to trust his catcher and let him call the game, plus Hughes is younger, has better stuff and is mature beyond his years(he wouldnt steal 29 computers from a school and sell them)

[Mark Weber]

Red Sox have Papelbon and Okajima. No Okie isnt a fireballer like Joba but he gets the job done plain and simple. He was an allstar last year and he was amazing all year.

On August 24th, 2007 Okajima's ERA was 1.17 and he was perhaps the premeir set-up reliever in MLB. In his next appearance (August 30th vs. the Yankees) he gave up three earned runs in 2/3 of an inning ina 5-0 Boston loss bestremembered for Joba Chamberlain "buzzing the tower" on Kevin Youkilis.

Including that game and moving forward through the end of the World Series, Okajima pitched 18 1/3 innings, allowing 22 hits, 12 earned runs and five home runs. His ERA following the loss to NY on August 30th was 5.89. I think I remember him being described as having a "tired arm" and that may be true, but I also think he got less effective as people got a look at his funky delivery and had tape to watch.

[Mark Weber]

Buchholz needs to learn to trust his catcher and let him call the game, plus Hughes is younger, has better stuff and is mature beyond his years(he wouldnt steal 29 computers from a school and sell them)

It was the school where his mom worked too - OUCH!

[Vinnie4]

Papelbon would have killed the rally anyway. The rain delay could have helped the Yankees as well. There was question after warming up 3 times if Papelbon could have pitched. They had Paps in a good position to get to him and they didnt. Arod struck out on 3 pitches. Rain delay had nothing to do with that. Hitters can keep sharp in the cages during a delay. Pitchers shouldnt be getting up and down with full warm ups 3 times.



I would have to disagree with that. How can you say for sure he would have killed the rally? Momentum is a big part of the game.

[Todd13]

What two people are better than Joba and Rivera?? The Mariners have Putz but they don't have Joba, the Red Sox have Paplebon but they dont have Joba either. No other team has a Joba AND a MoIt's the big IF I was laughing at. If you have the lead.:p

[troop2325]

1 minute till game time

[EastcoastSean]

Let's GO SOX !!!!!!!!