OFFICIAL Yankees vs. Red Sox trash talking thread

[Tanner2126]

figured that. It hasnt stopped raining since this morning.

[fenwayp]

Yankees are just scared of facing Schilling...

[TheFigureFanatic]

The Red Sox have been playing like trash and I don't feel like talking about it.

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

No game tonight. Rained out. No make-up date has been announced yet.

Somewhere out there, Michael Wilbon is having a party in his hot tub.

[Mark Weber]

How long will it seem like 2004 to seem like a long time ago? There has been only 1 world series championship since then. Seems like yesterday. That Championship will forever be branded in all Red Sox fans and I would have to say all Yankees fans for the rest of our lives. It was more than Winnning A Championship. It was the Greatest Championship in Boston history. I have seen a few Celtics Championship, Patriots and they will always be special but the Sox finally doing it will forever be the "ONE" that had more meaning than all 26 the Yankees have had. It was earned the hard way and it was long over due.

I realize the way you won the 2004 title was EXTREMELY gratifying, but saying that one title has more meaning than New York's 26 Championships is Red Sox myopia at its best.

I wouldn't trade the Red Sox history for anyone elses. Growing up pretending to be Fred Lynn, Yaz, Fisk, Rice, Tiant, Bill Lee, Scott, Clemens, ect. Those were some good times even though we didn't win anything we came close.

Gotta love those Red Sox Legends (apologies to Yaz & Rice):

Fred Lynn - Traded to California in 1981
Bill Lee - Traded to Montreal in 1978
Carlton Fisk - Signed with the White Sox as a free agent in 1981
Luis Tiant - Signed with the New York Yankees as a freea gent in 1979
George Scott - Traded to the Brewers in 1971
Roger Clemens - Signed with Toronto as a free agent in 1996

That's not mentioning Boggs, Burks, Nomar and Mo either...

Since we got new ownership they have come in and changed this organization around. They said they were going to have a healthy farm system and they do. They keep bringing up the kids and they had a good draft yesterday. They have been able to compete with Yankees money and in ways think outside the box to bring in revenue. These guys are in it for the long haul. They will be compettive for years to come. They are smart bussiness men and I dont see them folding over anytime soon. The 2004 Championship will never seem too long ago even when we go onto win a couple of more.

Kudos for the championship, but how exactly have things changed in Boston under the new ownership? Players are still leaving as soon as they can and the East title still rests in the Bronx (where it's been for a decade). Dealing prospects for guys under contract or offering huge free agent money seems to be the only way Boston gets any talent to wear their uniform.

Interesting to see Hansen called up. And Lester is slated to pitch Saturday. We could be seeing the future of Red Sox pitchers well before the All Star game. Lets hope its a prospurous future with alot of promise.

It makes you wonder if Hansen and Lester will leave Boston as free agents or get traded away...

[Mavrik28]

Gotta love those Red Sox Legends (apologies to Yaz & Rice):

Fred Lynn - Traded to California in 1981
Bill Lee - Traded to Montreal in 1978
Carlton Fisk - Signed with the White Sox as a free agent in 1981
Luis Tiant - Signed with the New York Yankees as a freea gent in 1979
George Scott - Traded to the Brewers in 1971
Roger Clemens - Signed with Toronto as a free agent in 1996

That's not mentioning Boggs, Burks, Nomar and Mo either...


Jim Lonborg was also part of the George Scott trade.

Rice was released by the Red Sox. Nice way to treat a legend. Same with Dwight Evans. Also a loyal homegrown team guy like Trot Nixon is going to be kicked to the curb this off season. Doesn't matter who owns the Red Sox, it seems like business as usual.

[Todd13]

LOL

And it wouldnt surprise me. Both teams seem more concentrated on beating the crap out of eachother then beating the rest of the teams too. I mean every move made by both teams is more to try and one up the other team.Didn't the Yankees and Red Sox just beat up the Tigers?

[SkoalStangGT]

Jim Lonborg was also part of the George Scott trade.

Rice was released by the Red Sox. Nice way to treat a legend. Same with Dwight Evans. Also a loyal homegrown team guy like Trot Nixon is going to be kicked to the curb this off season. Doesn't matter who owns the Red Sox, it seems like business as usual.

What about this Red Sox legend?? Don Zimmer the manager!:) I hate to see Trot Nixon go but I know its coming.:(
http://www.first-to-third.com/catalog/Oct23_84_DZ.JPG

[Todd13]

OLE! Pedro throws down Zimmer. Classic.

[robertbee]

Kudos for the championship, but how exactly have things changed in Boston under the new ownership?

By bring back Pesky letting him hang around the players, bringing Rice, Eck and dewey back. Opening the doors to the legends that have come and left. Extending an olive branch to Clemens. So much has changed. Green monster seats. The new preimuim seating. Right Field roof seats. Opening Fenway for minor league games for $5 possibly having the beanpot (hockey) in Fenway. Joining up with Boston College. You see Mark this ownership is fan friendly were as the other ownership was not. They didn't care. Granted this will bring in move revenue so we can compete with Yankee dollar and granted we have to pay for the most expensive seats in all of pro sports (Thanks Stienbrenner) You may not appreciate out history but it is just that. Our history. Everyone has it , some good ,some bad , that defines us as Red Sox fans. doesnt make us better than you or any less than you/ but the future is promising. I'm sure King George learned from his mistakes when he went to jail.
Kind of Ironic he owns a team that wears pinstripes and does sign questyionable characters but I wont go there. :D


Some red sox legends. Opening day. Good job by the owners.
They make it worth the price we pay.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/robertbee/P0002415.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v225/robertbee/?)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/robertbee/P0002417.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v225/robertbee/?)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/robertbee/P0002416.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v225/robertbee/?)

[Therman Merman]

I'm sure King George learned from his mistakes when he went to jail.
Ummm, Steinbrenner has never been to jail, so yeah... not sure where you got your info, but you might want to check your sources next time.

[Vinnie4]

You see it has come to a regualr season win for Yankee fans to gloat since they have been humbled most of this decade without out winning a World seies title while sending over 1 billion in an attempt to get King Gerorge one more ring before he expires.

This is the pot calling the kettle black. I recall seeing you post after opening day that the Red Sox had a 1 game lead over the Yankees.

[Mavrik28]

Nice Red Sox pic of a bunch of old guys, including Pesky, who blew the 1946 World Series.

Why wasn't Buckner invited? Even if he makes the play at first its still a tied game. Red Sox fans should still be ashamed for how they treated him and his family.

Or where was Jim Burton who blew it in the 9th inning in the 1975 World Series?

[Hardcore Legend]

I'm sorry, good play or not, but Melky Cabrera is one of the worst MLB players I've ever seen. He's the same guy that was clueless in center at Fenway last year, correct? The few Yankees games I've watched this season, he's blown plays in the outfield as well.

[Mark Weber]

Cabrera's young and last year's call-up was a complete failure, but he's shown good defensive instincts - maybe he'll grow into a capable fielder - he's already got six assists this season so the arm is a nice improvement over Matsui. Much as I like Hideki, there's not a chance he catches Manny's homer on Tuesday.

On another note, it's nice of Boston to bring back some of the legendary players who they traded away or left via free agency. I'm sure Pedro, Nomar, Boggs and Clemens will look great in an old car tooling around Fenway in 30 years...

[Mavrik28]

I'm sorry, good play or not, but Melky Cabrera is one of the worst MLB players I've ever seen. He's the same guy that was clueless in center at Fenway last year, correct? The few Yankees games I've watched this season, he's blown plays in the outfield as well.

This from the same fool that said Bill Russell was soft.

[troop2325]

Mark says..."Kudos for the championship, but how exactly have things changed in Boston under the new ownership? Players are still leaving as soon as they can and the East title still rests in the Bronx (where it's been for a decade). Dealing prospects for guys under contract or offering huge free agent money seems to be the only way Boston gets any talent to wear their uniform."and....
Fred Lynn - Traded to California in 1981
Bill Lee - Traded to Montreal in 1978
Carlton Fisk - Signed with the White Sox as a free agent in 1981
Luis Tiant - Signed with the New York Yankees as a freea gent in 1979
George Scott - Traded to the Brewers in 1971
Roger Clemens - Signed with Toronto as a free agent in 1996
If my research is right.....
1. Rickey Henderson-Traded by the New York Yankees to the Oakland Athletics for Greg Cadaret, Eric Plunk, and Luis Polonia; that worked out well those 3 are in the hall
2. Steve Sax- Traded by the New York Yankees to the Chicago White Sox for Melido Perez, Bob Wickman, and Domingo Jean.
3. Andy Pettite- November 6, 2003: Granted Free Agency. December 16, 2003: Signed as a Free Agent with the Houston Astros. I guess money isnt everything BOSS
4. Willie Randolph- October 24, 1988: Granted Free Agency. December 10, 1988: Signed as a Free Agent with the Los Angeles Dodgers.
5. Reggie Jackson- November 13, 1981: Granted Free Agency. January 22, 1982: Signed as a Free Agent with the California Angels. I guess a plaque in that shrine is a gesture of saying we are sorry for going in another direction.
6. Roger "The Greatest Pitcher of All Time" Clemens - November 6, 2003: Granted Free Agency. January 19, 2004: Signed as a Free Agent with the Houston Astros. Also twice he decided to not return to Boston or New York and return to a place where he wanted to go.
7. Billy Martin, how many times was he hired and fired...
Lets just both agree that both teams will sell thier mothers to win. Its ugly what New York and Boston both have done to baseballs economics, but since we the fans pay the prices it will continue forever.....and Mark we both know the Fisk ordeal was GM Haywood Sullivan's way of clearing a lane for his son Marc.

[robertbee]

This is the pot calling the kettle black. I recall seeing you post after opening day that the Red Sox had a 1 game lead over the Yankees.
Vinnie4


That is called humor Vince.



Good post Troop.



I'm sure Pedro, Nomar, Boggs and Clemens will look great in an old car tooling around Fenway in 30 years...


I sure hope so. I will be there god willingly:spawnskul

[robertbee]

He Will Make 55,000
Shut Up... Tomorrow
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/gladiacurt.jpg

He came here two years ago and said, 'You know, I'm here for one reason: I want to bring a world championship to Boston. I want to beat those Yankees.' He totally embraced the culture of Boston. He got it."


Click here: Boston Red Sox - The Sox I know / Bob Ryan - Curt Schilling - Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/multimedia/thesoxiknow/curt_schilling/)

[GPWYANKEE]

He Will Make 55,000
Shut Up... Tomorrow
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/gladiacurt.jpg



He came here two years ago and said, 'You know, I'm here for one reason: I want to bring a world championship to Boston. I want to beat those Yankees.' He totally embraced the culture of Boston. He got it."


Click here: Boston Red Sox - The Sox I know / Bob Ryan - Curt Schilling - Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/multimedia/thesoxiknow/curt_schilling/)

LMAO-Rob you kill me with this stuff:D

[robertbee]

LMAO-Rob you kill me with this stuff:D
GPWYANKEE


Good to hear :D
Garth. Hope you and the family are well. One of the best Yankee fans on the board. They should all be like you. Class.well most are its a few Yahoos that give Yankee fans a bad name ;)

Cheers

[SeattleMariners51445]

Good to hear :D
Garth. Hope you and the family are well. One of the best Yankee fans on the board. They should all be like you. Class.well most are its a few Yahoos that give Yankee fans a bad name ;)

Cheers
Oh and so Red Sox Fans aren't the least bit annoying and clueless?

[Lord_Stanley_#89]

LMAO-Rob you kill me with this stuff:D
HaHa. Funny, how when he started to explore moving from Arizona the only two teams he said he would play were the Phillies and the Yankees. Then he signs with the Sox and all of a sudden he changes his tune. Funny what money does to people.

[ToightLikeATiger]

HaHa. Funny, how when he started to explore moving from Arizona the only two teams he said he would play were the Phillies and the Yankees. Then he signs with the Sox and all of a sudden he changes his tune. Funny what money does to people.

Schilling never said that... Schilling had always had the Redsox on his list of teams to get traded to. Schilling even said this year it was either Redsox or Yankees. He said if he hadnt signed with the Redsox he would be a Yankee right now.

dont know where you got your info that the Redsox werent on the list but its wrong.

[Mark Weber]

1. Rickey Henderson-Traded by the New York Yankees to the Oakland Athletics for Greg Cadaret, Eric Plunk, and Luis Polonia; that worked out well those 3 are in the hall
2. Steve Sax- Traded by the New York Yankees to the Chicago White Sox for Melido Perez, Bob Wickman, and Domingo Jean.
3. Andy Pettite- November 6, 2003: Granted Free Agency. December 16, 2003: Signed as a Free Agent with the Houston Astros. I guess money isnt everything BOSS
4. Willie Randolph- October 24, 1988: Granted Free Agency. December 10, 1988: Signed as a Free Agent with the Los Angeles Dodgers.
5. Reggie Jackson- November 13, 1981: Granted Free Agency. January 22, 1982: Signed as a Free Agent with the California Angels. I guess a plaque in that shrine is a gesture of saying we are sorry for going in another direction.
6. Roger "The Greatest Pitcher of All Time" Clemens - November 6, 2003: Granted Free Agency. January 19, 2004: Signed as a Free Agent with the Houston Astros. Also twice he decided to not return to Boston or New York and return to a place where he wanted to go.
7. Billy Martin, how many times was he hired and fired...
Lets just both agree that both teams will sell thier mothers to win. Its ugly what New York and Boston both have done to baseballs economics, but since we the fans pay the prices it will continue forever.....and Mark we both know the Fisk ordeal was GM Haywood Sullivan's way of clearing a lane for his son Marc.

You're missing my point troop - I didn't put Jim Rice on the list of "Boston bailers" because he had a long and distinguished career with the Sox and when his skills faded noticeably for two straight years they released him - there's nothing wrong with that. Similarly, when New York let Willie Randolph go, there wasn't much left in the tank (he only put together 469 hits over the next four seasons before retiring). The other guys you mention were rented players (Reggie, Rickey, Sax, Clemens) and a guy who's strongest desire was to move back to Texas and spend more time with his family (Pettitte). Billy Martin was so proud to be a Yankee he managed the team FOUR different times.

My point is, Boston doesn't have many all-time Legends who start and finish with the team. Guys like Mickey Mantle, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Whitey Ford, Mel Stottlemyre, Ron Guidry, Bobby Richardson, Roy White, Don Mattingly and Thurman Munson (I know). Lefty Gomez and Yogi Berra played a combined five games elsewhere after their lifelong Yankee careers - so they ALMOST make the list. I can't imagine any of the current old-school Yankees core (Rivera, Jeter, Posada & Bernie) playing anywhere else.

Prime talents who were traded away or chose to leave: Reggie Jackson, Alfonso Soriano, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Dave Righetti, Willie Randolph, Bobby Murcer, Goose Gossage.

I tried to compile the same list for Boston (granted I'm not as familiar with Red Sox history)

Career Red Sox of note: Carl Yastrzemski, Ted Williams, Jim Rice, Mike Greenwell, Rico Petrocelli, Dom DiMaggio, Bobby Doerr. (Dwight Evans ALMOST makes this list).
Trot Nixon and Kevin Youkilis COULD get added to that list.

Prime talents who were traded away or chose to leave: Babe Ruth, Johnny Pesky, Roger Clemens, Wade Boggs, Nomar Garciaparra, Ellis Burks, Pedro Martinez, Tris Speaker, Jimmie Foxx, Tony Conigliaro (I know), Fred Lynn, Carlton Fisk, Mo Vaughn, Shea Hillenbrand, Johnny Damon, Bronson Arroyo, Dennis Eckersley, Luis Tiant, Bill Lee, Bruce Hurst.

Like I said, a rest stop - not a destination.

[fenwayp]

Yankees are just scared of facing Schilling...

Nice to see the Yankees SUCKING UP THE JOINT tonight :eek: :D

[fenwayp]

http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/2004/ar_Jdb.jpg

[fenwayp]

http://www.drunkenbleachers.com/images/yc04_large.jpg

http://www.drunkenbleachers.com/images/yc04_largebk.jpg

[fenwayp]

Schilling simply overwhelmed the Yankees tonight :)

[Yukoner]

Schilling simply overwhelmed the Yankees tonight :)

Yeah, those three homers he gave up really got to them. :)

[Mark Weber]

fenwayp - is that the best you've got? That's a second-place taunting if I've ever heard one. So Curt Schilling is better than Jaret Wright huh? You simply wound me with the assertion.

[troop2325]

Mark, I see your point point but some of the names you added to your list of greats are only there in Yankee fans mind...and Dwight Evans is on the Red Sox list, oh yeah what about Varitek...he has never played for another team. I know he was traded for but he never was in the show with seattle

[robertbee]

It's no wonder the Boston Red Sox wear red and white. While red symbolizes passion and excitement and white symbolizes the "good guy" who wins in the end as well as angels, it's the Red Sox greats such as Ted Williams and Carl Yastrzemski that make us believe there really are "angels in the outfield." The true pride American League baseball is represented by some of the best players in the nation.The history of baseball changed with the added excellence of Carlton Fisk,
Wade Boggs, Cy Young, Luis Aparicio, Dennis Eckersley, Roger Clemens,
Fred Lynn, Nomar Garciaparra, and Pedro Martinez. Even a die-hard Yankees
fan like me must admit the extraordinary accomplishments of some of the
finest players to have ever dug their cleats into Fenway Park¡¯s turf. Let¡¯s take a
closer look into the historical realm of the greatest players to wear the official
jersey of blood, sweat, and tears. It is necessary to pay homage to one of the
best teams in American baseball.

First up is not only quite possibly the best hitter in baseball history, but also a
remarkable U.S. Marine and fisherman, is Ted Williams, left fielder. This
retired number 9 jersey wearing power hitter was nicknamed "The Splendid
Splinter," "The Kid," "Teddy Ballgame" and "The Thumper." Since 1930, no
one could hit .400 until 1941 when Williams first did. Now, no slugger yet has
been able to hit over .400 again since Williams. Missing four seasons due to
his U.S. Marine commitment, Williams¡¯ batting average probably would have
been even higher. The 521 home run hitter wrote six books about fishing and
baseball, one named, The Science of Hitting; appropriately titled since
Williams believed in practicing the art of batting.

Playing for the Red Sox from 1939 to 1942 and 1946 to 1960, this 1966 Hall of
Fame Inductee (also featured in the Fishing Hall of Fame) won Most Valuable
Player (MVP) twice. William¡¯s artifacts in the National Baseball Hall of Fame
include a ball hit by him for his 500th career homer on June 17, 1960, a ball
signed by him and Dom DiMaggio, and his sunglasses.

With much respect to his passing in 2002 at 83 years old, both Boston and
San Diego (his home town) named a tunnel and a freeway after Williams, The
Ted William Tunnel and Ted Williams Parkway, respectively.

The legend "Teddy Ballgame" will always be honored and remembered by his
fans and will continue to remind us of the fun spirit in the ballgame itself.

Games, at-bats, runs, hits, doubles, total bases, RBI¡¯s and extra base hits:
close behind Williams who succeeded him in left-field is Carl Yastrzemski,
who was the leader for all. Yastrzemski is the only player to have played with
one team for so long - wearing a now retired straight #8 jersey all the way
through 23 years with the Red Sox (from 1961 to 1983).

Yastrzemski won seven Gold Glove Awards, "Yaz" found honorable presence
in the 1989 Hall of Fame. Yastrzemski¡¯s artifacts in the National Baseball Hall
of Fame include his Gold Glove Award in 1971, his Triple Crown trophy 1967,
and his Silver Bat for winning the American League batting title in 1963. As if
all this wasn¡¯t enough, he was an 18-time All-Star, too.

Still devoted to the Red Sox today, Yaz is still much involved as a roving
instructor.

Important to mention third is catcher, Carlton Fisk, catching more games
(2,226) than anyone in history. Nicknamed "Pudge," his number 27 jersey is
also retired. A 24-year baseball player overall, Fisk played for the Red Sox in
1969 and from 1971 to 1980 then later the Chicago White Sox as number 72,
also retired. Not only an outstanding catcher, during Fisk¡¯s rookie season of
1972, he was the first American League catcher to lead the league in triples
when he hit nine of them. He was inducted into the National Baseball Hall of
Fame in 2000 and chose to be represented by the Red Sox even though he
played more with the White Sox.

Upon Fisk¡¯s amazing career, there have been two dedications made to him in
his honor. The first was the fourth foul pole at Fenway Park named the "Fisk
Pole" where he landed his 12th-inning home run that won the 1965 World
Series in Game 6 - one of the most memorable games in Major League
history. The second was the life-size bronze statue of himself inside the U.S.
Cellular Field in Chicago.

Up fourth is superstitiously successful, Wade Boggs, third baseman and
twelve-time All Star. His excellence finally earned him into the Hall of Fame in
2005 since playing for the Red Sox from 1982 to 1992. From 1983 to 1989
Boggs scored at least 100 runs every season, just one of his any masterful
hitting feats.

Fifth, but not forgotten is Cy Young, whose real name was Denton True Young.
Cy was short for "Cyclone" because his fastball was faster than fast, evident by
the destruction of nearby barns and fences as he practiced pitching. Young
was a 1937 Hall of Famer for pitching with the Red Sox from 1901 to 1908. His
artifact in the National Baseball Hall of Fame features his pipe and case. The
annual award given to the best pitcher in each Major League was honorably
named after him - the Cy Young Award.

Luis Aparicio, Venezuelan shortstop, follows. Nicknamed "Little Looey," he
played only a short time for the Red Sox from 1971 to 1973 and was later a
1984 Hall of Fame Inductee for nine Gold Glove Awards leading the American
League in nine seasons with stolen bases. Aparicio was also a 10-time All-
Star. Holding the shortstops career record, Aparicio retired in 1973 with the
most games played, double plays and assists.

Pitcher, Dennis Eckersley, AKA "Eck" was inducted into the 2004 Hall of Fame
six years after he played on and off for the Red Sox, from 1978 to 1984 and
1998. He had a 20 win season and a 50 save season in his career, thus
becoming the first pitcher in Major League history to have both.

Although not National Baseball Hall of Famers - and last but not least - include
Roger Clemens, Fred Lynn, Normar Garciaparra, and Pedro Mart¨ªnez also
have made a lasting impression in Red Sox history.

Pitcher, Roger Clemens, nicknamed "The Rocket," played for the
Red Sox from 1984 to 1996. He is only one of two pitchers that
have thrown 20 strikeouts in a nine-inning Major League game.
Now playing for the Houston Astros, does the Red Sox want him
back? Of course, but he might not want to give up his relationship
with the Astros, winning seven Cy Young Awards. A Hall of Fame
position may be just around the pitcher¡¯s plate for Clemens.

Fred Lynn, center fielder, played for the Red Sox from 1974 to 1980. This nine-
time All Star was the first player to have won both the MVP and Rookie of the
Year awards in the same season in 1975. With notable mention, although not
as prestigious as the National Baseball Hall of Fame, Lynn was inducted into
the Boston Red Sox Hall of Fame in 2002.

The popular shortstop, Nomar Garciaparra, played for the Red Sox from 1994-
2004. He was talented enough to put a stop to John Valentin¡¯s position as
short in 1994. In his rookie year alone he had 30 home runs, batted in 98 runs,
led the league in hits, and was second in extra-base hits.

An early career speed of 95 miles per hour led Pedro Mart¨ªnez, to win
three Cy Young awards. Although his speed has since then slowed
down he is still a pitcher with a myriad of professional and
dominating techniques. Originally from the Dominican Republic,
Mart¨ªnez played for the Red Sox from 1998 to 2004 and is only one
of ten Red Sox pitchers that have had 100 or more wins.

There you have it - eleven reasons to celebrate the success of
Boston¡¯s best baseball heroes known as the all-time Red Sox Greats. Even if
not everyone may be a Red Sox fan, there¡¯s no denying it; we all bleed red.

[fenwayp]

Yeah, those three homers he gave up really got to them. :)

:rolleyes: Curt Schilling (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4267/) became the American League's first nine-game winner Thursday night, pitching the Boston Red Sox (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/bos/) to a 9-3 victory over the New York Yankees (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/nyy/).
Schilling (9-2) allowed just four hits in eight innings, retiring his final 12 batters.

[fenwayp]

fenwayp - is that the best you've got? That's a second-place taunting if I've ever heard one. So Curt Schilling is better than Jaret Wright huh? You simply wound me with the assertion.

You are just the GOD of all sports information and perfect assertions of grandeur, Mark :rolleyes: I can't compete with your arrogance and saavy...

Enjoy 1st place...what is this, like the 3rd day the Yankees have held first place all year ? The Yankees luck will run out with this team...injuries are mounting, and now Sheff is out until September when it will be too late.

[ToightLikeATiger]

i have 2 legit questions for Yankees fans.

first.... if there wasnt a rain delay todays pitching matchup would have been Wakefield vs Johnson. With the rain delay teams had 2 options.

now of course the Redsox stuck with Schilling with an extra days rest. To avoid the sweep they wanted their ace on the mound and were not going to skip him.

The Yankees on the other hand could have skipped Jaret Wright and had Johnson pitch vs Schilling on normal rest. Johnson is suppose to be the Ace of this staff. When going for a 3 game sweep shouldn the Yankees want their Ace on the mound instead of the #5 starter?

2nd question is... are Yankees fans tired of Arod yet when it comes to big games? i know people love arod and he has huge numbers. but i know a few Yankees fans that are tired of his inability to do it in the clutch and big game. Yankees were winning tonight and Arod comes up with a costly error. Arod has had more big errors vs the Redsox then he should have. He killed the Yankees momentum tonight and maybe cost them the game with that.

At what point does Arod stop getting the free pass and start getting it from fans. i know he is probably the most talented player in the league and his numbers at the end of the year will be outstanding. but he has to do it when it counts as some point for yankees fans to be confident in him dont they?

once again im not bashing or looking to have a bash fest. 2 legit questions as a baseball fan observing.

[therocksays]

Troop, I agree with you. Both teams have done there very best to win a Champoinship no matter. Lest we forget that the Red Sox went after Arod first. Not caring much about Bill Mueller, regardless of his pretty decent years in Boston. You were also trying to get Clemens recently. Went and got Beckett. Both teams do whatever they need to win. Robert Bee has claimed Yankees gave away their farm system. The Yankess have won the last 9 out of 12 with guys like Andy Phillips, Melky Cabrera, Robinson Cano, Wang. Pretty decent farm guys. Also Tiger I agree Johnson should've started, but I don't believe they Johnson could be Schilling. So Wright became fall guy. How many thought that Beckett would explode the other night. Also, A-Rod is a choke artist. This isn't the first time in his career this has been brought up. This was brought up in Texas and in Seattle. ARod hits when the Yankees are either ahead or way behind. His defense this year has been pathetic, definitley gave up runs tonight. How many times do we have to see Proctor give up tons of runs. He and Scott Erickson should be sent down. Hopefully Dotel arrives soon. Sturtze can also stay where he is. Torre seems to be too loyal sometimes. RobertBee talks about intelligent conversation then congrats should go to New York and Boston when deserved. Yeah Pauley was good the other night, but Wang was better, and he is only been in the majors for about 1 year. Lets not talk about Legends, the Yankees definitely have more and they pretty much stuck with the Yankees most of there careers. A player leaves very late in their career its for monetary purposes or just can't say no to the game. Do you think anyone will ever remember Emmitt as a Cardinal, don't think so. Always a Cowboy. Most people don't remember Manny was an Indian. Most people think he's always been with Boston. Also, your 1 Championship doesn't mean anymore than the Yankees 26 or Florida's two or any solo winners. A championship is a Championship. Not any different because you are Sox fan. If you want to talk intelligent, you start talking like someone who has intelligence. If you smellllllaaaaaah what The Rock is Cookin

[SeattleMariners51445]

Nice to see the Yankees SUCKING UP THE JOINT tonight :eek: :D
You know,everytime you talk it becomes more and more obvious how old you actually are. You always sound so childish. Yanks win first two games of the series and you don't say **** but when a game is rained and the next game when the Red Sox get LUCKY and win,you start talking smack about how the Yankees stuff and all that nonsense.You are just way too ****y about the Red Sox,You had nothing until 2004 in fact I bet that was the year you became a Red Sox fan.I'd take the Yanks and Bluejays over the Sox anyday.

[robertbee]

Troop, I agree with you. Both teams have done there very best to win a Champoinship no matter. Lest we forget that the Red Sox went after Arod first. Not caring much about Bill Mueller, regardless of his pretty decent years in Boston.

therocksays


Bill Mueller played 3rd base. Arod was a shortstop. HE CONVERTED FOR JETER!


Also, your 1 Championship doesn't mean anymore than the Yankees 26 or Florida's two or any solo winners. A championship is a Championship. Not any different because you are Sox fan. If you want to talk intelligent, you start talking like someone who has intelligence .


You are intitled to you opinion but I stand by mine. It was worth more for me. It was more than a Championship. It set Red Sox nation free from Yankee arogance. Otherwise we would be seeing alot of 1918 post in this thread. Wait til next year, Same old song and dance, Curse of the Bambino., Bucky Dent, Bill Buckner. That Championship but that all to rest. This thread would be filled with those remarks and you cant deny it. So open up your mind and see it from a Red Sox fans point of view.
You speak of inteligence but you are blinded by your own ignorance. . And yes it is diffrent because I am a Red Sox fan. I think yiou are smelling to much what the rock is cooking. Come out of that cloud

[robertbee]

AFRUAD AT IT AGAIN
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/06/08/1149813848_9590.jpg
Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez reacted after striking out to end the first inning.
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/06/08/1149817120_1285.jpg
Third baseman Alex Rodriguez let a hard grounder off the bat of Alex Gonzalez hit off his glove and score a run. The play, originally ruled an error, was later changed to a double
but really we all know it was an error
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/06/08/1149820936_8144.jpg
Alex Rodriguez reacted after striking out against Jonathan Papelbon to end the game.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/06/08/1149823684_4008.jpg

Alex Rodriguez hit his helmet with his bat after his game-ending strikeout. Rodriguez was the second strikeout in the inning for Papelbon


Maybe you should try hitting the ball instead of your helmet?

Mr MVP!

[wwerules]

i have 2 legit questions for Yankees fans.

first.... if there wasnt a rain delay todays pitching matchup would have been Wakefield vs Johnson. With the rain delay teams had 2 options.

now of course the Redsox stuck with Schilling with an extra days rest. To avoid the sweep they wanted their ace on the mound and were not going to skip him.

The Yankees on the other hand could have skipped Jaret Wright and had Johnson pitch vs Schilling on normal rest. Johnson is suppose to be the Ace of this staff. When going for a 3 game sweep shouldn the Yankees want their Ace on the mound instead of the #5 starter?

2nd question is... are Yankees fans tired of Arod yet when it comes to big games? i know people love arod and he has huge numbers. but i know a few Yankees fans that are tired of his inability to do it in the clutch and big game. Yankees were winning tonight and Arod comes up with a costly error. Arod has had more big errors vs the Redsox then he should have. He killed the Yankees momentum tonight and maybe cost them the game with that.

At what point does Arod stop getting the free pass and start getting it from fans. i know he is probably the most talented player in the league and his numbers at the end of the year will be outstanding. but he has to do it when it counts as some point for yankees fans to be confident in him dont they?

once again im not bashing or looking to have a bash fest. 2 legit questions as a baseball fan observing.


Question 1:
I think part of the reason they went with Wright is because he has been pitching well lately, and Johnson threw a lot of pitches his last start. And let's face, looking beyond his last 2 starts, Johnson hasn't pitche like an ace this season.

Question 2:
I don't think A-Rod is being given a free pass by Yankee fans. In fact, until he wins a ring, I don't think he'll be seen as a "true Yankee" (whatever that means). There's an article in the NY Daily News today that in "late, pressure" situations--7th inning or later, team up/down by a run, or with tying run on deck--A-Rod is 4 for 28 this year. That's just not good. In his defense, there have been games this year where he's homered to put them up 2-0, and they've gone on to win in a blowout. But in New York, where everything is magnified so much, nobody remember that.

So yeah, this Yankee fan is a little disappointed in A-Rod's lack of hitting in the clutch. It was a good series, and good to see some new faces impacting the rivalry (Melky, Pauley).

[Vinnie4]

You are intitled to you opinion but I stand by mine. It was worth more for me. It was more than a Championship. It set Red Sox nation free from Yankee arogance. Otherwise we would be seeing alot of 1918 post in this thread. Wait til next year, Same old song and dance, Curse of the Bambino., Bucky Dent, Bill Buckner. That Championship but that all to rest. This thread would be filled with those remarks and you cant deny it. So open up your mind and see it from a Red Sox fans point of view.
You speak of inteligence but you are blinded by your own ignorance. . And yes it is diffrent because I am a Red Sox fan. I think yiou are smelling to much what the rock is cooking. Come out of that cloud

Now we hear a whole slew of new stupid comments, such as the Yankees haven't won a championship this decade, or this century. You talk of arrongance, but 1 championship in 87 years put you, and sevreal other Red Sox fans, on a pretty high horse.

[ToightLikeATiger]

You're missing my point troop - I didn't put Jim Rice on the list of "Boston bailers" because he had a long and distinguished career with the Sox and when his skills faded noticeably for two straight years they released him - there's nothing wrong with that. Similarly, when New York let Willie Randolph go, there wasn't much left in the tank (he only put together 469 hits over the next four seasons before retiring). The other guys you mention were rented players (Reggie, Rickey, Sax, Clemens) and a guy who's strongest desire was to move back to Texas and spend more time with his family (Pettitte). Billy Martin was so proud to be a Yankee he managed the team FOUR different times.

My point is, Boston doesn't have many all-time Legends who start and finish with the team. Guys like Mickey Mantle, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Whitey Ford, Mel Stottlemyre, Ron Guidry, Bobby Richardson, Roy White, Don Mattingly and Thurman Munson (I know). Lefty Gomez and Yogi Berra played a combined five games elsewhere after their lifelong Yankee careers - so they ALMOST make the list. I can't imagine any of the current old-school Yankees core (Rivera, Jeter, Posada & Bernie) playing anywhere else.

Prime talents who were traded away or chose to leave: Reggie Jackson, Alfonso Soriano, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Dave Righetti, Willie Randolph, Bobby Murcer, Goose Gossage.

I tried to compile the same list for Boston (granted I'm not as familiar with Red Sox history)

Career Red Sox of note: Carl Yastrzemski, Ted Williams, Jim Rice, Mike Greenwell, Rico Petrocelli, Dom DiMaggio, Bobby Doerr. (Dwight Evans ALMOST makes this list).
Trot Nixon and Kevin Youkilis COULD get added to that list.

Prime talents who were traded away or chose to leave: Babe Ruth, Johnny Pesky, Roger Clemens, Wade Boggs, Nomar Garciaparra, Ellis Burks, Pedro Martinez, Tris Speaker, Jimmie Foxx, Tony Conigliaro (I know), Fred Lynn, Carlton Fisk, Mo Vaughn, Shea Hillenbrand, Johnny Damon, Bronson Arroyo, Dennis Eckersley, Luis Tiant, Bill Lee, Bruce Hurst.

Like I said, a rest stop - not a destination.

Mark let me put this to you simple... cause you have an argument there but you are forgetting a huge thing.

Free Agency started in 1975. Before that players didnt move around like they did today. So you saying players dont stay with Boston is true but it doesnt happen in New York or anywhere anymore. Its all about the money and if a person isnt performing they end up going elsewhere.

so guys like you listed for the Yankees werent in the free agency time. Players usually stayed with their teams for a long time. Thats what happened back then. Now its different.

also i dont get your argument anyway. Is it suppose to be insulting to Redsox fans? is the Redsox organization suppose to keep older underperforming players just so they stay Redsox? Thats not how you win. Your try to get better.

Redsox organization made some mistakes for sure... letting guys like Clemens,Boggs,Lynn and Fisk go. But every teams does that stuff now a days. And that was past owners and gm's of the team.

Redsox roster changed quite a bit this offseason. But they didnt go out and get all stars at every position.

They got Beckett who is 25. they dealt a top prospect in Hanley Ramirez for him. Thats building for the future though. Coco Crisp is 25 or 26. Younger then Damon and cheaper. Building for the future. Manny has been on the team for a while. Varitek wasnt a star until he came to Boston. Lowell and Loretta were good older offseason aquisitions but they arent gonna be there a long time. Alex Gonzalez is a 1 year guy who plays gold glove defense. Dustin Pedroia will be the future SS in Boston though. Willie Mo Pena is 24 and has a big bat. He is the future in Boston.

John Lester, Jonathan Papelbon, Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen are all great young arms that should impact the redsox for many years.

Sox have Jacoby Ellsburry (sp) who is a top CF prospect in the minors. If they didnt get Coco he may have been the CF this year. he is only like 21.

The sox are trying to build the team younger and still add veterans at the same time. Sure maybe all these guys i mentioned wont start and finish with the Redsox but its how they are building the team now.

its the way of baseball these days. Frank Thomas didnt finish with the Whitesox like everyone thought he would. Does that make Chicago a bad organization? no. they just didnt want to pay an underperforming old guy the money he wanted.

Loyalty in baseball is a rare occasion these days. Whether its from players or organizations. Its a business of doing whats best to win.

So please before you continue to make your argument realize things are different now a days.

[Mark Weber]

You are intitled to you opinion but I stand by mine. It was worth more for me. It was more than a Championship. It set Red Sox nation free from Yankee arogance. Otherwise we would be seeing alot of 1918 post in this thread.

And instead you're seeing a lot of 26 > 1 - pick your poison I guess.

[ToightLikeATiger]

And instead you're seeing a lot of 26 > 1 - pick your poison I guess.

its 0-0 right now when it actually counts. which is now.

[Mark Weber]

Tiger, you're making my point for me. To quote you:

Free Agency started in 1975. Before that players didnt move around like they did today. So you saying players dont stay with Boston is true but it doesnt happen in New York or anywhere anymore. It's all about the money and if a person isnt performing they end up going elsewhere. So guys like you listed for the Yankees werent in the free agency time. Players usually stayed with their teams for a long time. Thats what happened back then. Now it's different.”

I'm not disagreeing with you - but illustrating that talent leaving Boston is nothing new, it was well-established before free agency hit in 1975.

Babe Ruth: Why would you trade your bst pitcher and the best power hitter in the game to your archrival team?

Rick Ferrell: Had been to five straight All-Star games when Boston shipped the 31-year-old future Hall of Fame outfielder to Washington.

Johnny Pesky: Why ship a 31-year-old, career .300 hitter to Detroit?

Tris Speaker: Why give up a 28-year-old former MVP (and future Hall of Famer) the year after he'd helped deliver a championship?

Tony Conigliaro: Hit a career-high 36 homers and 116 RBI as a 25-year-old star and got shipped to California as a reward.

Cy Young: Why did Boston let Cy Young leave after a 21-win season to join the Indians?

Now I've got no problem with an organization letting a long time veteran walk when his skills have eroded - I didn't take Boston to task for letting Dwight Evans have one sad season in Baltimore to close out his career (it's the equivalent to Yogi Berra catching five games as a New York Met in his sayonara) nor did I bring up Hanley Ramirez or Jeff Bagwell - trading prospects for established talent is absolutely part of the game.

The point I'm making is that players don't stay in Boston. I don't have the reason WHY, but Red Sox management has chosen to trade away some of the best players who've ever worn a Boston uniform, and since free agency began in 1975, almost all the best Red Sox have chosen to leave Boston while they still had plenty of years left to play (think Clemens, Boggs, Fisk, Tiant, Vaughn, Pedro & Damon). Has management decided not to bring these guys back, or are they walking away from something they don't want to be a part of anymore? I don't know the answer to that question, but from an outsider's perspective it makes the Red Sox look like a rest stop, and not a destination. The combination of great players getting traded away and choosing to leave has left Boston with very few all-time Legends: Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski, Mike Greenwell, Jim Rice & Dwight Evans are only ones that come to mind.

Redsox roster changed quite a bit this offseason. But they didnt go out and get all stars at every position. They got Beckett who is 25. they dealt a top prospect in Hanley Ramirez for him. Thats building for the future though. Coco Crisp is 25 or 26. Younger then Damon and cheaper. Building for the future. Manny has been on the team for a while. Varitek wasnt a star until he came to Boston. Lowell and Loretta were good older offseason aquisitions but they arent gonna be there a long time. Alex Gonzalez is a 1 year guy who plays gold glove defense. Dustin Pedroia will be the future SS in Boston though. Willie Mo Pena is 24 and has a big bat. He is the future in Boston. John Lester, Jonathan Papelbon, Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen are all great young arms that should impact the redsox for many years. Sox have Jacoby Ellsburry (sp) who is a top CF prospect in the minors. If they didnt get Coco he may have been the CF this year. he is only like 21. The sox are trying to build the team younger and still add veterans at the same time. Sure maybe all these guys i mentioned wont start and finish with the Redsox but its how they are building the team now.

It's not how they're building the team now, it's how they've always built the team. By trading what stars they develop internally, trading for guys who are under contract, and (since 1975) buying free agents who leave as soon as their contracts run out. Of your nine young stars/prospects (Beckett, Crisp, Pedroia, Pena, Lester, Papelbon, Hansen, Delcarmen and Ellsbury), how many are going to have long and storied careers as Red Sox? The smart money says one of them - maybe two…

[Lord_Stanley_#89]

http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/2004/ar_Jdb.jpg
You forgot to put: CIRCA 2004

[Vinnie4]

Hey Toight, so why is it the Yankees bring in talent to win and "use hired guns", but when Boston does it they are trying to win? Like you said, free agency is a part of today's game. Anybody who accepts a bigger contract from another team is a hired gun.

[robertbee]

And instead you're seeing a lot of 26 > 1 - pick your poison I guess
mark Weber 26-6 we just gained 5 championship on you Weber. Nice! :D
All those championships are nice but not as nice as coming back from 3-0 and having a reverse sweep in the hallowed Yankees stadium. ALot of things dies that day. A curse, Yankee arogance, "Can you beleive it" I sure did.




Now we hear a whole slew of new stupid comments, such as the Yankees haven't won a championship this decade, or this century. You talk of arrongance, but 1 championship in 87 years put you, and sevreal other Red Sox fans, on a pretty high horse
Vincent


They are true statments. Its a fact. Its been a half decade since the Yankees won and they have not won this century. We put up with Yankee arogance all our lives. You have put up with Red Sox arrogance if that's what you call it for 2 years. 2 tears in a bucket! Cry me a river Vinny. Stop whinning ;)



so guys like you listed for the Yankees werent in the free agency time. Players usually stayed with their teams for a long time. Thats what happened back then. Now its different.

also i dont get your argument anyway. Is it suppose to be insulting to Redsox fans? is the Redsox organization suppose to keep older underperforming players just so they stay Redsox? Thats not how you win. Your try to get better.

Redsox organization made some mistakes for sure... letting guys like Clemens,Boggs,Lynn and Fisk go. But every teams does that stuff now a days. And that was past owners and gm's of the team
ToightLikeATiger


excellant point Tiger






Babe Ruth: Why would you trade your bst pitcher and the best power hitter in the game to your archrival team?
Mark Weber


First off he was sold. Not traded. At teh time the Red Sox were the 1st baseball dynasty in the history of MLB. They won 5. So the owner was hurting for cash to fund a broadway play for his wife. He sold the babe.


mark when you talk about Red Sox management you talk about the old management. In todays age players come and go. Its a bussiness. In all sports you rarely get people that play out thier career's and when you do hold onto them for the sake of "the Glory Days" it ends up hurting the organization. Example. Parish, Mckale, DJ. Bird. Keeping the big 3 togetter towards the end hurt the club to this day. Its admirable to keep them but it hurts you in the long run. Today players go where the money is. Players dont stay in Boston? The dont stay anywhere. Its not just a Boston thing.
The Sox did try and bring abck Damon for 4 years, Yankees stepped and and took him away with more MONEY. Pedro was taking away by the METS for more money and a extra year. Clemens went to TORONTO FOR MORE MONEY.. Nomar was offered 60 MILLION ofor 4 years turned it down. BOGGS left for MORE MONEY.
This management made the efforts they have a price that they can afford and is reasonable. They can not afford to make yankee mistakes that is the difference. Yankees have the loot to over pay, to pry players away, and the money to make finacial blunders and recouperate. They can sell thier souls and bounce back. That is why they are the Evil Empire

[robertbee]

You forgot to put: CIRCA 2004
26WorldSeries

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/06/08/1149817120_1285.jpg
CIRCA last night.
Mike Lowell would of had it!

[LI-Mike]

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/06/08/1149817120_1285.jpg
CIRCA last night.
Mike Lowell would of had it!

Your still at it..Damn I thought you would have given up being a Tool but now...I guess you will never learn...

Guys Just one thing. NOT all Red Sox fans are tools Like Robertbee and Toightlikeatiger...

[Sbells]

Your still at it..Damn I thought you would have given up being a Tool but now...I guess you will never learn...

Guys Just one thing. NOT all Red Sox fans are tools Like Robertbee and Toightlikeatiger...

Jeez, it seems like you're making a habit out of following around Robertbee and busting him about his opinions on the Sox/Yanks. You even indirectly refer to it yourself!

[SmartassBoiler]

Your still at it..Damn I thought you would have given up being a Tool but now...I guess you will never learn...

Guys Just one thing. NOT all Red Sox fans are tools Like Robertbee and Toightlikeatiger...

Haha, so he's a tool because of a little trash talking, which is what this thread is for?

[robertbee]

Jeez, it seems like you're making a habit out of following around Robertbee and busting him about his opinions on the Sox/Yanks. You even indirectly refer to it yourself! Sbells


pm him he likes it.... And you wonder why I pm'd you. You should leave sitting dogs alone. Hey Mark can I pm this clown or what? You state its harassment? What is this? LI-Mike I got a tool for you ;)

[Mark Weber]

All those championships are nice but not as nice as coming back from 3-0 and having a reverse sweep in the hallowed Yankees stadium. ALot of things dies that day. A curse, Yankee arogance, "Can you beleive it" I sure did.

Keep telling yourself that robertbee - memories will help keep you warm as you watch other teams play in the World Series. Putting the 26-6 in perspective, if the Yankees win the championship this year, and Boston wins it every other year going forward, you'll probably still die with less overall titles than New York has. You claiming the recent title and the satisfying ALCS sweep mean more than 26 titles is like a Pistons fan saying their team has done more than the Celtics. Tradition and history matter, particularly if your team has one to be proud of.

mark when you talk about Red Sox management you talk about the old management. In todays age players come and go. Its a bussiness. In all sports you rarely get people that play out thier career's and when you do hold onto them for the sake of "the Glory Days" it ends up hurting the organization. Example. Parish, Mckale, DJ. Bird. Keeping the big 3 togetter towards the end hurt the club to this day. Its admirable to keep them but it hurts you in the long run. Today players go where the money is. Players dont stay in Boston? The dont stay anywhere. Its not just a Boston thing. The Sox did try and bring abck Damon for 4 years, Yankees stepped and and took him away with more MONEY. Pedro was taking away by the METS for more money and a extra year. Clemens went to TORONTO FOR MORE MONEY.. Nomar was offered 60 MILLION ofor 4 years turned it down. BOGGS left for MORE MONEY. This management made the efforts they have a price that they can afford and is reasonable. They can not afford to make yankee mistakes that is the difference. Yankees have the loot to over pay, to pry players away, and the money to make finacial blunders and recouperate. They can sell thier souls and bounce back. That is why they are the Evil Empire

When I'm criticizing Boston management I'm going back nearly 90 years, so forgive me for not making the "new management" exempt from the microscope. A big part of why New York keeps (almost) anyone they want is the capless state of MLB - I've never disputed that. Let's not go back to Boston crying poor though, with baseball's second-highest payroll and most expensive seats. Another bit that helps is that there is a draw to playing for New York and being a Yankee. Boston doesn't have that. The titles have been rare and history has shown that great players don't stay in Boston for very long. Don't you think a team as storied as Boston should have more retired numbers?

[robertbee]

Don't you think a team as storied as Boston should have more retired numbers?

No we dont give them out like Yankee fans giving out standing ovations for a 2nd inning home runs. Or tying a game up with a 2 home run.

[Arodjr]

Please. The Red Sux don't give them out because they've had so few players deserving.No we dont give them out like Yankee fans giving out standing ovations for a 2nd inning home runs. Or tying a game up with a 2 home run.

[robertbee]

, you'll probably still die with less overall titles than New York has.
Merk Weber

And what's wrong with that? I know that when I do die that I will be happy that we finally got over the hump. We did it in 2004 and I am sure I can speak for many others that it was an incredible feeling.We appreicated more since we had to go thru heartache and riducule. Something you will never experience since you have had that silver spoon I wouldnt say since birth but we you decided you wanted to be a Yankee fan. And a Steelers fan. Maybe it was in the 70's when they were both dynastys. Picking a front runner is easy but being born in Massachusetts and being a fan of all teams New England is something I take pride in. Not taking away anything from non homegrown fans but how did you become a Yankee fan and a Steelers fan Mark? You were born in Oregon or something?

[Sbells]

pm him he likes it.... And you wonder why I pm'd you. You should leave sitting dogs alone. Hey Mark can I pm this clown or what? You state its harassment? What is this? LI-Mike I got a tool for you ;)

Don't go that far... I never did, yet he felt I was harassing him. Still haven't figured out how it appeared to him that I made a special effort to bug him, guess he's just that special!

Regardless, I do my best to stay away from him, wouldn't want him to get the wrong idea again. I will not, however, stop calling it how I see it.

[SkoalStangGT]

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/BDD_FG_Yanks-sox-6-07-06.jpg

[Mark Weber]

No we dont give them out like Yankee fans giving out standing ovations for a 2nd inning home runs. Or tying a game up with a 2 home run.

Are there any Red Sox Legends you feel should have their jerseys retired? As I look at the wall in Fenway I see:

#1 Bobby Doerr: Career Red Sox player and Hall of Famer

#4 Joe Cronin: Spent eleven of his 20 seasons in Boston - Hall of Famer

#8 Carl Yastrzemski: Career Red Sox player and Hall of Famer

#9 Ted Williams: Career Red Sox player and Hall of Famer

#27 Carlton Fisk: Played in Boston for ten of his 24 seasons - Hall of Famer

#42 Jackie Robinson: Universally retired in every stadium, even for the team that didn't sign Willie Mays because he "wasn't their kind of player."

So Hall of Famers Luis Aparicio, Wade Boggs, Lou Boudreau, Jesse Burkett, Orlando Cepeda, Jack Chesbro, Jimmy Collins, Dennis Eckersley, Rick ferrell, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove, Harry Hooper, Waite Hoyt, Ferguson Jenkins, George Kell, Heinie Manush, Juan Marichal, Herb Pennock, Tony Perez, Red Ruffing, Babe Ruth, Tom Seaver, Al Simmons, Tris Speaker and Cy Young all don't have their numbers retired in Boston. Why's that, you ask? Maybe it's because those 25 Hall of Famers only played 117 combined seasons in Boston. That's an average of 4.68 seasons as a Red Sox player. That's why the numbers aren't retired there - all those names are remembered as great palyers, but very few are remembered as Red Sox first. Like I said, it's a rest stop - not a destination.

As for the personal shot at me and my sports loyalties, I grew up in the middle of Oregon but I was born in Jamestown, New York. When pressed for my favorite football team as a four-year-old on the playground I said STEELERS! because I knew they were the champs. But I stayed loyal ever since, and if you recall there wasn't much glory in the Mark Malone/Bubby Brister years. Growing up in the middle of Oregon (where there's only one professional team) I didn't have much local flavor pulling my sports soul in any particular direction.

When I got interested in Sports (around 5th grade or 1985) I decided I'd root for the teams from my "original" hometown area - choosing Yankees over Mets, Rangers over Islanders (despite the Islanders' recent dynasty), and the Knicks by default. I didn't abandon my Steelers for the title-winning NY Giants of 1986, or the Yankees for the World Champion Mets of 1986. I didn't become a fan of my favorite teams in the traditional ways (following the local example or rooting a team on with my father) but that doesn't make me any less of a fan. New York didn't even make the post-season until the tenth season I rooted for them (think the 1994 strike hurt me a little?), although they've been generous since, rattling off ten straight A.L. East division titles and four World Championships.

I guess that completely dismantles your "silver spoon" and "born in Oregon" arguments, but keep throwing stuff at the wall and something's gotta stick right? Maybe the "no Yankee titles this decade/century" thing should be your calling card - it's valid for the time being and helps solidify the difference between my favorite team and yours.

[fenwayp]

You know,everytime you talk it becomes more and more obvious how old you actually are. You always sound so childish. Yanks win first two games of the series and you don't say **** but when a game is rained and the next game when the Red Sox get LUCKY and win,you start talking smack about how the Yankees stuff and all that nonsense.You are just way too ****y about the Red Sox,You had nothing until 2004 in fact I bet that was the year you became a Red Sox fan.I'd take the Yanks and Bluejays over the Sox anyday.

It's a TRASH TALKING THREAD, so get over it, dude. :eek:

By the way, I was born and raised in suburban Boston and have been a Sox fan for well over 30 years...and how is winning 9-3 on a 4-hitter by Schilling lucky ? And who talks trash when their team loses 2 games in a row ? What am I suppossed to do, come on here then and start riding Yankee fans about how much the Yankees suck ? That makes good sense. If you don't like trash talking, don't read the thread.

Shouldn't you be worrying about your own lameass Mariners ? They need all the help they can get.

This is all supposed to be in good fun...It's ONLY A GAME ! :D

[fenwayp]

One other thing: I honestly respect Yankee fans a lot. They love their team, love our rivalry and love talking trash. Yankees are always good...just not as good as our Red Sox :)

[fenwayp]

Randy Johnson earning his money again tonight :)

[AS251BR]

Randy Johnson earning his money again tonight :)

YEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, BOIEE!

Go's A's! :D

[Mark Weber]

Randy's ERA after tonight's shellacking: 5.62
Josh Beckett's ERA after getting pounded Monday night: 5.27

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

Wow, Randy is done.

[fenwayp]

Yankees lose.
Red Sox back in FIRST PLACE (albeit by 1/2 game) :)

Oakland 6, NY Yankees 5

Bottom 9th: NY Yankees
- H. Street relieved K. Calero
- D. Jeter grounded out to second
- J. Giambi popped out to shallow left
- A. Rodriguez flied out to right

Arod comes through in the clutch again...

[AS251BR]

Yankees lose.
Red Sox back in FIRST PLACE (albeit by 1/2 game) :)

Oakland 6, NY Yankees 5

Bottom 9th: NY Yankees
- H. Street relieved K. Calero
- D. Jeter grounded out to second
- J. Giambi popped out to shallow left
- A. Rodriguez flied out to right

Arod comes through in the clutch again...

You're welcome. Hey, tell you what, you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours. :D

[fenwayp]

You're welcome. Hey, tell you what, you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours. :D

;) Sounds good. Brooms anyone ?

[Mavrik28]

I stay away from this thread for awhile and I see the Red Sox fans are as clueless as ever. Take Mike Lowell. I'll take A-Rod. A-Rod is going to the Hall of Fame, he'll win atleast 2 more MVPs and probably 2 to 3 rings.

Until they can beat the Blue Jays, I don't see the Red Sox making the playoffs. Especially with the Red Sox team era being worse then the Yanks. Josh Beckett looks more cooked then Randy Johnson. RJ is atleast an old man. Whats Beckett's excuse?

And again. Red Sox fans continue to live in the past constantly bringing up 2004. Good for you guys. Keep living in the past. Its great. What happens when the Yankees win a World Series again, before the Red Sox? What kind of excuses are Red Sox fans going to make?

The Chicago White Sox and their fans had a longer stretch so them winning it was alot more special. And their fans didn't act like a bunch of spoiled babies. They showed class and dignity and were happy to finally win. They don't don't harp on last year. They look toward the next one. Red Sox fans could learn alot from White Sox fans.

Even the Boston papers are calling out the fans and their bad attitudes.

[Mavrik28]

Yankees lose.
Red Sox back in FIRST PLACE (albeit by 1/2 game) :)

Oakland 6, NY Yankees 5

Bottom 9th: NY Yankees
- H. Street relieved K. Calero
- D. Jeter grounded out to second
- J. Giambi popped out to shallow left
- A. Rodriguez flied out to right

Arod comes through in the clutch again...

Ok who cares what A-Rod did? Jeter and Giambi did nothing as well. Who cares if you are in first place? Its the first week of JUNE. Let me know when its Sept.

What did Manny or Papi do tonite? NADA. Combined they left 7 men on base.

[Mavrik28]

Wow, Randy is done.

You sir are a freaking genius. Very astute this one is.

[robertbee]

I stay away from this thread for awhile and I see the Red Sox fans are as clueless as ever. Take Mike Lowell. I'll take A-Rod. A-Rod is going to the Hall of Fame, he'll win atleast 2 more MVPs and probably 2 to 3 rings.


The only ring he is going to win is when Yankee fans hit him in the head witha duracell. Then we will have a permant ring. They guy is a fruad. Lowell already has2 rings with the Marlins and TheyYankess. Lowell 2 Adog ZERO hows that for your hero.


Why are the Yankees paying the big mess?

[robertbee]

Are there any Red Sox Legends you feel should have their jerseys retired?

Dewy, Rocket, Tiant, Tony C, Pesky, Pedro, Boggs,


Joe Cronin
• First modern-day player to become a league president.
• Elected to Baseball Hall of Fame in 1956.
• Compiled .301 average in 20 MLB seasons.
• Affiliated with Red Sox for 24 seasons as player/manager, manager, and general manager.
• Leads all Red Sox managers with 1071 wins.
• Managed Red Sox to AL pennant in 1946.
• Holds AL record for pinch-hit homers in a season, 5 (1943).
• Became 1st player to hit pinch-hit homes in both games of a doubleheader, June 17, 1943 (in a stretch when he hit three three-run pinch-hit homers in four at-bats).
• Participated in 12 All-Star Games for AL, six as a player
Carlton Fisk
• Carlton Fisk will always be remembered as the player who hit the historic, 12th-inning, game-winning homer in Fenway Park off Reds pitcher Pat Darcy in Game 6 of the 1975 World Series. Besides being the hero on MLB's biggest stage in a game that has been referred to as "the greatest World Series game ever played," Fisk had many other memorable highlights during his 11-year career as a member of the Red Sox.
• Red Sox first draft choice and fourth overall selection in the January 1967 Winter Baseball Amateur Draft.
• Made his MLB debut on September 18, 1969.
• Was the first unanimous winner of the American League Rookie of the Year Award in 1972 (.293, 22 HR, 61 RBIs). He was also tied for the AL lead with nine triples.
• Won the 1972 AL Gold Glove Award for defensive excellence.
•Seven-time All-Star, including four games started. He was voted as a starter five times but was replaced in 1974 due to a knee injury.
•Was the AL Honorary All-Star Game captain on July 13, 1999 at Fenway Park.
•Is the all-time Red Sox leader in games caught with 990.
•Red Sox Hall of Fame Inductee on September 8, 1997

and lets not over look....

Jackie Robinson
• In 1947, Jackie Robinson became the first African American man to play in the Major Leagues.
• Number retired throughout baseball in 1997.
• Played for Brooklyn Dodgers from 1947-56.
From his Baseball of Hame Plaque:
"Leading NL batter in 1949. Holds fielding mark for second baseman playing in 150 or more games with .992. Led NL in stolen bases in 1947 and 1949. Most Valuable Player in 1949. Lifetime batting average .311. Joint record holder for most double plays by second baseman, 137 in 1951. Led second baseman in double plays 1949-50-51-52."

[Mavrik28]

The only ring he is going to win is when Yankee fans hit him in the head witha duracell. Then we will have a permant ring. They guy is a fruad. Lowell already has2 rings with the Marlins and TheyYankess. Lowell 2 Adog ZERO hows that for your hero.


Why are the Yankees paying the big mess?

Why are the Yankees paying for one of the best palyers ever? Stupid question. Also he isn't costing the Yankees much at all. 67 million of his contract is being paid for by the Rangers.

Don't you think its sad that the Red Sox traded one of the best young shortstops in all of baseball for Lowell? To think teams needed top take Lowell to get Beckett. Now it looks like Lowell is the best part of the trade.

And Lowell wasn't even on the 1998 Yankees in the postseason. He had ZERO to do with the 1998 Yanks.

The Red Sox are older then the Yankees. And their pitching is not so hot. Higher ERA then the Yankees. Clement is done. Wells is done. Beckett is a dud. And Curt is fat, ugly and loves to give up the longball. I guess he really has taught Beckett alot. Here you go son, here's how to give up a homer.

The Red Sox go from wanting Papelbon to be a young starter with Hansen as the closer of the future. Now Papelbon is the closer and Hansen is being converted to a starter. Real geniuses up there in Fenway. Just a matter of time before Papelbon's arm is done.

But you know all this. Apparently Red Sox fans think their team is better then the Yankees and White Sox and Toronto this year. They are allowed to think that. But until they can beat the Blue Jays, I don't see them making the playoffs. And the Yanks have won 2 straight series from them. And the last series had no Matsui, Sheff or Jeter. And they still won 2 of 3. Losing the 1 game they were expected to lose. Yanks lose Sheff and Matsui, no problem, they go to the farm for help. What happens is the Red Sox lost Manny? Where would they go? Or Big Sloppi? What if he went down?

Kevin Youkilis is having a solid season with some great numbers as the leadoff man. So what do they do. They put Coco back to leadoff even though he strikeouts alot and is not nearly as smart or patient of a hitter as Youkilis. Job of the leadoff man is to get on base. Youk does that way better then Coco. But instead he's hitting 7th.

Nice to see Josh Bard is having a better year then Vagitek. Anytime you have a chance to trade away a very good young catcher you do that. Keep the bad hitting and bad fielding catcher for as long as you want. How many years are the Red Sox stuck with an already broken down catcher? 2 more years. Ouch. Maybe they can just use Bard, oh wait. They never gave him a chance. Here kid you only catch the knuckle. Our suppsoed super gold glove catcher can't do it, but you can. Oh wait you can't? Guess we have to trade you so we can acquire another bad hitting catcher, can't have enough of those.

Nice to see Trot hit a homer. Too bad he's getting kicked to the curb at the end of the season. Red Sox don't care about loyalty. Doesn't matter who owns the team. Arroyo see yeah. Nixon bye bye. Nomar, screw you we want A-Rod. Mueller, get out. Thats just from the current ownership.

Yeah Bernie Williams is old and falling apart, but the Yankees still kept him. Can't say the same for the Red Sox.

[robertbee]

And Lowell wasn't even on the 1998 Yankees in the postseason. He had ZERO to do with the 1998 Yanks.


Still got a ring. That is 1 more than Adog. And Lowell is a much bette defensive player

[robertbee]

The Red Sox go from wanting Papelbon to be a young starter with Hansen as the closer of the future. Now Papelbon is the closer and Hansen is being converted to a starter. Real geniuses up there in Fenway. Just a matter of time before Papelbon's arm is done.

ok Mr Crystal Ball. Just a matter of time. You keep saying that about half the team. Rain willingly we will be seeing the future of the Sox today with LEster, Hansen, and Papalenbon all on the big league team.

Let me ask you this How many saves does Pap's have 20 for 21 with a win last night striking out the side. How many saves does Riveria have? And whats his w-l record?


And the last series had no Matsui, Sheff or Jeter. And they still won 2 of 3. Losing the 1 game they were expected to lose.

I hear they will be back for the "OLD TIMERS GAME" And expected to lose? Now that is weak! Nobody expects to lose. vey weak my friend. only losers expect to lose. That is why they call them losers. Think about it.



Kevin Youkilis is having a solid season with some great numbers as the leadoff man. So what do they do. They put Coco back to leadoff even though he strikeouts alot and is not nearly as smart or patient of a hitter as Youkilis. Job of the leadoff man is to get on base. Youk does that way better then Coco. But instead he's hitting 7th.

Coco is a leadoff hitter. a run scorer and a base stealer. Youk is not a leadoff hitter he did admirable in his fill in as a leadoff hitter. Moving him down the line up give you some well needed pop. Every manager would make the move except you and Grady Little

[robertbee]

Nice to see Josh Bard is having a better year then Vagitek. Anytime you have a chance to trade away a very good young catcher you do that. Keep the bad hitting and bad fielding catcher for as long as you want. How many years are the Red Sox stuck with an already broken down catcher? 2 more years. Ouch
Mav***28


Yeah ok. Broken down. He sure looked it the other night against your team. Yous ound like Adog barking off now.

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/clint/arod_varitek.jpg
Pinstripe Pounding
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/BDD_6.8_JV-hr_ap.jpg
(AP Photo)
V-Tek Kicks In: Captain Crunches Big Apple Jack




Nice to see Trot hit a homer. Too bad he's getting kicked to the curb at the end of the season. Red Sox don't care about loyalty. Doesn't matter who owns the team. Arroyo see yeah. Nixon bye bye. Nomar, F U we want A-Rod. Mueller, get out. Thats just from the current ownership.



Ahh would you like a tissue? 2 tears in a bucket! baseball thier is no crying in sports and you sure do alot of it.
Brillianat move by Theo to go after Adog which opened the door for him to go to the Yankees. BRILLIANT. Afraud is a bum. When it comes down too it. He will never win a championship. They are better off trading him for some young pitching and some defense because they are just awful So far the glass slipper was held the pounding but its coming off faster than it did for Small. Valiant attempt to stay in first but its all over now.

[robertbee]

Yeah Bernie Williams is old and falling apart, but the Yankees still kept him. Can't say the same for the Red Sox.

Thanks for the laughs buddy. That is the statement of the year!

[robertbee]

Click here: Yankee video - SPAWN.COM Message Board (http://board.spawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309330)

[Mark Weber]

Why are the Yankees paying the big mess?

The same reason Boston is paying Josh (5.27) Beckett I guess. I wonder if Beckett will ever recapture his 2003 postseason form? I wonder what team he'll go to when he undoubtedly leaves Boston.

[Mark Weber]

Dewy, Rocket, Tiant, Tony C, Pesky, Pedro, Boggs,

I've got no problem with Dwight Evans - when I think of him I absolutely 100% think Red Sox. Explain this to me - if Clemens, Tiant, Conigliaro, Pesky, Martinez & Boggs represent "Red Sox Legends" and guys worthy of having their numbers retired in Fenway, why did they (combined) only play 56% of their games as members of the Red Sox? (Hint: It's a rest stop, not a destination.)

I can't tell you how much it pleases me to see Jackie Robinson's #42 hanging on the wall of Fenway Park - the home of baseball's most historically racist franchise. Jackie debuted in 1947, yet Boston didn't have an African-American player on their roster until Pumpsie Green in 1959 - making them the last team in MLB to integrate their roster.

Here's some info on it pulled from NPR's Web site:

The Boston Red Sox were the last major league baseball team to integrate their roster. In 1959 -- 12 years after Jackie Robinson broke the league's color barrier by joining the Brooklyn Dodgers -- the Red Sox brought infielder Pumpsie Green up from the minors.

The legacy of racial exclusion on the Red Sox extended into the Fenway Park stands, where black fans often felt unwelcome. But as Juan Williams (http://www.npr.org/about/people/bios/jwilliams.html) reports for Morning Edition, the team's new owners have decided to confront the emotional story of Boston, baseball and racism.

Larry Lucchino, president and CEO of the Red Sox, and part of the new ownership that took over the team in February, acknowledges that along with the team's positive traditions, the club's history has included "an undeniable legacy of racial intolerance."

"You can't grow up in America as a sports fan and not recognize the role that baseball played both negatively and positively in the racial history of America," Lucchino says. "And the fact that it took until 1959 for Pumpsie Green to integrate the Sox infield speaks volumes."

The history goes back to before baseball was integrated. Oddly enough, the Red Sox held a tryout at Fenway Park for Jackie Robinson in April 1945. But with only management in the stands, someone yelled "Get those ******* off the field," according to a reporter who was there that day. Two years later, Robinson joined the Brooklyn Dodgers, becoming the first black player of the 20th century to play in the major leagues.

In 1949, the Red Sox gave up the chance to sign future Hall of Famer Willie Mays, who would go on to hit more career home runs than all but one man before him and electrify crowds with his defensive play. As Juan Williams reports, "one of the team's scouts decided that it wasn't worth waiting through a stretch of rainy weather to scout any black player. That decision killed the possibility that Mays and Ted Williams might have played in the same outfield for the Red Sox."

[Mark Weber]

So far the glass slipper was held the pounding but its coming off faster than it did for Small. Valiant attempt to stay in first but its all over now.

I love Sox fans who trumpet the photo of Varitek sucker-punching A-Rod. Stay classy, Boston. Got any of Bird choking Erving? That must have been a Boston fan's absolute dream...

New York was further back last year with a healthier lineup and still managed to win their TENTH CONSECUTIVE division title. If I was a Sox fan, I'd be happy my team was in first place, but a little worried that we hadn't put more distance between ourselves and the wounded Yankees team. I'm sure Soriano, Helton and the Yankees (oops I'm getting ahead of myself) will be in it come September.

[ToightLikeATiger]

Mark you need to get a grip man.... bringing up 1959 history. everyone knows that crap. and its different now. different owners and people now.

i know you are trying to bash the redsox but you do a horrible job of it.

you are just spewing off useless stuff that has no impact on anything recent.

[Mark Weber]

So Lucchino's 2002 quote about it still being relevant doesn't sway you?

[ToightLikeATiger]

I love Sox fans who trumpet the photo of Varitek sucker-punching A-Rod. Stay classy, Boston. Got any of Bird choking Erving? That must have been a Boston fan's absolute dream...

New York was further back last year with a healthier lineup and still managed to win their TENTH CONSECUTIVE division title. If I was a Sox fan, I'd be happy my team was in first place, but a little worried that we hadn't put more distance between ourselves and the wounded Yankees team. I'm sure Soriano, Helton and the Yankees (oops I'm getting ahead of myself) will be in it come September.

and if the Redsox do win the division im sure Yankees fans will just blow it off saying "its about time" because they like to live in the past. Just like when Yankees fans brag about 26 world series when the Redsox won in 2004.

[ToightLikeATiger]

So Lucchino's 2002 quote about it still being relevant doesn't sway you?

Everyone knows the Yawkey's were racist. it was pathetic. but it means nothing now as that type of conduct doesnt take place anymore in the organization.

so once again you need to join us in 2006 Mark.....its the present

[Mark Weber]

So 2002 is too far in the past to reference but 2004 is still AWESOME?? Let me know what timeframe is still relevant to trash-talk about and I'll try to stay within those boundaries. What's the address for Fenway Park anyway?

[Mark Weber]

Yankees fans like to live in the past.

(Spits water all over his computer)
(Grabs the irony and hugs it close)
(Walks away smiling)

[ToightLikeATiger]

You are really a pathetic person arent you Mark....i feel bad that you cant act normal and just enjoy the rivalry. Instead you gotta bring up useless stuff to bash the Redsox to make yourself feel better.

You know the Yankees history isnt all shiny and perfect either Mark. Im not going into detail because it means nothing to me really. But they have had as many problems as the Redsox.

So before you spew off against the Redsox look at your own organizations habits.

Most teams deal with this stuff. It sucks but it happens.

btw you keep saying Boston "Its a rest stop not a destination"

well New York IS a destination. in fact its a retirement home

[robertbee]

I can't tell you how much it pleases me to see Jackie Robinson's #42 hanging on the wall of Fenway Park - the home of baseball's most historically racist franchise. Jackie debuted in 1947, yet Boston didn't have an African-American player on their roster until Pumpsie Green in 1959 - making them the last team in MLB to integrate their roster.

really Mark is there room on this board for racism. As a mod you should know better This country/world is full of racism. To this day. And to be honest its worse in Europe. I have seen blacks not allowed into Irish Pubs in Germany to watch the soccer match.
Do you have memebrship card? No. You need one. See ya. It was disgusting. To attack the Red Sox for racism is a low blow and it shows that it does exsist on this board in many forms. I for one wouldnt bring it up since its offensive to others And lets not forget that the Celtics were the first to start 5 black players but one day I hope we never have to talk about "The Good Ole days" When we talk about individual skills no matter what the persons race is. Plain and simple. The Yawkeys didnt care for Blacks. Look at our countrys history.. Its disgraful. MANY MANY Wealthy people used blacks for gain. And if you look at it athletes are out slaves today. They just get paid for enterianing us minus the whip. Granted they are free, scar free minus knee operations and other injurys. Maybe sports is a form of slavery. Slave for the money?.
We really need racism in a trash talking thread. ?

[ToightLikeATiger]

Robertbee you havent learned yet? Mark will say and use anything he can to bash the Redsox. There are no boundaries with him

[GoNiners]

Randy Johnson earning his money again tonight :)

The sad thing is him and that s-bag Jaret Wright are earning their money more then Carl "Worthless" Pavano.

[robertbee]

I love Sox fans who trumpet the photo of Varitek sucker-punching A-Rod. Stay classy, Boston. Got any of Bird choking Erving? That must have been a Boston fan's absolute dream...


I am sure every racist loved that picture.

[Mark Weber]

You're the one making this a personal thing but I'm the one who's pathetic?

I'm sorry if bringing up the "rest stop" stuff and the Red Sox embarrassing history of racial discrimination struck a nerve. I thought the "trash talking" thread was an appropriate place for that sort of thing.

If you don't like my posts, feel free to refute 'em.

[Mark Weber]

Robertbee you havent learned yet? Mark will say and use anything he can to bash the Redsox. There are no boundaries with him

What parts of Red Sox history would you prefer me to avoid?

[robertbee]

I love Sox fans who trumpet the photo of Varitek sucker-punching A-Rod. Stay classy
lets see. Arod. FU Tek What? Arod FU.. Tek. Got to first base pretty boy... arod. FU... Eat my glove.. Sucker punching? No go to first base and keep your mouth shut. Arod showed alot of classy that day. .

[Mark Weber]

.

really Mark is there room on this board for racism. As a mod you should know better This country/world is full of racism. To this day. And to be honest its worse in Europe. I have seen blacks not allowed into Irish Pubs in Germany to watch the soccer match.
Do you have memebrship card? No. You need one. See ya. It was disgusting. To attack the Red Sox for racism is a low blow and it shows that it does exsist on this board in many forms. I for one wouldnt bring it up since its offensive to others And lets not forget that the Celtics were the first to start 5 black players but one day I hope we never have to talk about "The Good Ole days" When we talk about individual skills no matter what the persons race is. Plain and simple. The Yawkeys didnt care for Blacks. Look at our countrys history.. Its disgraful. MANY MANY Wealthy people used blacks for gain. And if you look at it athletes are out slaves today. They just get paid for enterianing us minus the whip. Granted they are free, scar free minus knee operations and other injurys. Maybe sports is a form of slavery. Slave for the money?.
We really need racism in a trash talking thread. ?

I think there's room for intelligent conversation about racism in sports on the message board. The problem with "hot button" issues like race, religion and politics is that they are such personal and inflammatory topics that it's hard to have an intelligent discussion without someone taking it the wrong way and getting offended. You and other Boston fans have agreed that the Yawkey ownership helped make the Red Sox the most historically racist organization in Major League Baseball. Why can't I reference that?

[BlakChamber]

What parts of Red Sox history would you prefer me to avoid?
I think they would like you to avoid everything except for 2004.

[Mark Weber]

lets see. Arod. FU Tek What? Arod FU.. Tek. Got to first base pretty boy... arod. FU... Eat my glove.. Sucker punching? No go to first base and keep your mouth shut. Arod showed alot of classy that day. .

I agree that cursing at an opponent on the field is low class - I wouldn't put it in the same realm as sucker-punching a guy in the face, but I agree that it's not representative of a classy ballplayer.

What did you think of Beckett screaming obscenities at Ryan Howard this Spring and Shea Hillenbrand during the season?

[ToightLikeATiger]

So the Redsox were a racist organization in the past.... oh no they will be racist forever... damn i guess i will have to find a new favorite team because they were racist in the past.

[ToightLikeATiger]

What did you think of Beckett screaming obscenities at Shea Hillenbrand and Ryan Howard this Spring?

both were showing the pitcher up.... one (Howard) watching a ball thinking it was a homerun.

second was Hillenbrand walking to first base on a strike call.

on both occasions the hitters were trying to show up Beckett. So Beckett let them know he didnt appreciate it.

alot of pitchers use to do this. Some of the all time greats wouldnt let you show them up. Perhaps Beckett has that old time mentality. Which i like personally.

More pitchers should do stuff like this and not let hitters do what they want. There should be more pitching inside and backing hitters off the plate. Most pitchers are afraid though for some reason.

[robertbee]

You and other Boston fans have agreed that the Yawkey ownership helped make the Red Sox the most historically racist organization in Major League Baseball. Why can't I reference that?

You only bring it up because you want to make the Sox look bad. Instead having an inteligent conversation you use the past racism as a tool to make the Sox look bad. What you bring up has no bearing on the this organization today. Its a black eye from the past when they were run by a racist. Mr yawkey. Alot of 'OLD MONEY" was made due to slavery. And to this day it is still around. Using the race card to tarnish the Sox would have been merited back then. Today it has no bearing or merit.


Early morning, April 4
Shot rings out in the Memphis sky
Free at last, they took your life
They could not take your pride


And you will not take my pride away as well.

GO SOX!


http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v93/warrngtn/fight7.jpg



Arroyo didn't hit him on purpose I don’t think anyone watching the game could claim that. Arod overreacted almost as bad as Manny did in the '03 playoffs (Clemens)
Arod should have shut his mouth and taken the base like a man. Arod starts mouthing off to Arroyo like he just got pegged intentionally. Is Jason Varitek supposed to just let Arod have his way with the 26 year old kid on the mound? credit Arroyo for not backing down and barking right back at Arod. So Varitek tells Arod to shut it, Arod tosses some F-bombs Varitek's way, and Varitek just loses it. I would have done the same thing. Adog should have just taken the base like he's suppose too. Instead Tek jawed him and shut him up for good. Made him look like a fool. A.... Afool :D

[Yukoner]

both were showing the pitcher up.... one (Howard) watching a ball thinking it was a homerun.

second was Hillenbrand walking to first base on a strike call.

on both occasions the hitters were trying to show up Beckett. So Beckett let them know he didnt appreciate it.

alot of pitchers use to do this. Some of the all time greats wouldnt let you show them up. Perhaps Beckett has that old time mentality. Which i like personally.

More pitchers should do stuff like this and not let hitters do what they want. There should be more pitching inside and backing hitters off the plate. Most pitchers are afraid though for some reason.

Hillenbrand did nothing of the sort. Shea started walking towards first after hearing nothing from the umpire on a borderline pitch. Beckett is loonytunes, and needs to assemble strawmen to get himself pumped up.

When he doesn't build up those strawmen, he gets pounded.

[robertbee]

Have a good day everyone. We all have our faults and remember. Nobody is better than anyone else. On a good note weather permitting the Sox will have the future in the lineup today. Lester, Papelbon and Hansen all on the same roster. NICE!

[Vinnie4]

Hillenbrand did nothing of the sort. Shea started walking towards first after hearing nothing from the umpire on a borderline pitch. Beckett is loonytunes, and needs to assemble strawmen to get himself pumped up.

When he doesn't build up those strawmen, he gets pounded.
Yeah, but Beckett is a Red Sox player, so his actions are excusable. Every other team trash talks and is classless, but Beckett "was not allowing anyone to show him up". And Varitek "was protecting his young pitcher".

[Therman Merman]

robertbee, Hansen was optioned back to Pawtucket today to make room for Lester. Just thought I'd let you know.

[Yukoner]

Mark, bringing up owners, eh? Not sure you want to go down that road. After all, it wasn't the Red Sox who hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on a Hall of Famer and Yankee legend. It wasn't any part of the Red Sox ownership who were BANNED from baseball. Which owner was indicted on over a dozen charges for illegal campaign contributions?

And loyalty? Which team changed managers 20 times in 23 years?

Before I call this a day, here's a quote from the boss:

"I am dead set against free agency. It can ruin baseball."

[Vinnie4]

Yes, Varitek hit a HR against the Yankees in Boston's only win of the series, but wasn't it like only his 4th hit against them all season? And since no one else brought it up, Melky scoring from first base on a passed ball was something you see in youth baseball. Way to go Red Sox.

[Yukoner]

And Varitek "was protecting his young pitcher".

Naw, Varitek just wasn't putting up with crap from a punk.

[Vinnie4]

Naw, Varitek just wasn't putting up with crap from a punk.
So against the Yankees, they don't put up with crap from a punk, but if it's against the Jays, it is badmouthing?

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

So against the Yankees, they don't put up with crap from a punk, but if it's against the Jays, it is badmouthing?

Well yeah, because A-Rod is the one that began to shout obscenities towards Arroyo when obviously there was no intent on “Brandon’s” part to hit him. As for Beckett, he’s the one that was the instigator both times, in spring training against the Phillies and in April against the Blue Jays by yelling at the hitters like a moron.

[Vinnie4]

Well yeah, because A-Rod is the one that began to shout obscenities towards Arroyo when obviously there was no intent on “Brandon’s” part to hit him. As for Beckett, he’s the one that was the instigator both times, in spring training against the Phillies and in April against the Blue Jays by yelling at the hitters like a moron.
Well, I've been hit by a pitch, and have wanted to yell obsentities at the pitcher as well, I'm just smart enough not to do it. A-Rod was out of line and acting foolishly, and I didn't like his attitude. But I can say the same for Varitek. And I agree 100% on Beckett. Boy was it nice to see him get hammered against the Yankees, and only last 1 1/3 innings.

[Mavrik28]

Yeah ok. Broken down. He sure looked it the other night against your team. Yous ound like Adog barking off now.

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/clint/arod_varitek.jpg (AP Photo)





Living in the past again I see. Apparently 1919 to 2003 and 2005 never happened. Only 2004. Red Sox fans have 1 year they can actaully post pics from. The previous 5 wins happened before pictures existed.

[robertbee]

So lets change the subject and get something healthy going.
Healthy?
Well lets talk about health.
. Since HGH is the burning question and the Yankees have a history of cheaters. Giambi Sheff. Better known as the JUICE BROTHERS and yankee great jason grismly getting busted. I am sure some more Yankees will be exposed as cheaters in the coming future.
. So my question is. How do you feel knowing that you have cheaters that have no respect or integrity to the game?

Do you turn a blind eye because they wear pinstripes?

And do you think the use of roids and hgh will shorten thier lives?

[Mavrik28]

People like bee can hate the Yankees all they want. They are entitled to. But their hate is based solely on being from Boston. They are programmed to hate the Yanks, 76ers, Canadians, Knicks, etc. They can't think for themselves.

Patriots fans are just as bad. Losers forever. Then they win 3 Super Bowls and suddenly everything Bill does is genius. Never mind the crappy team they had last year. Never mind the number of players he has kicked to the curb. Doesn't matter. Its the price of winning.

Celtics fans were just as bad in the 80s.

Bruins fans, well, are there any left?

Bostonians loves sports a bit too much. They are too obsessed. They need to take a step back. Its only sports.

[robertbee]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/robertbee/090503a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v225/robertbee/?)

Mavrik28 you should go to Ireallyhatethat.com to vent. Your crying and complaining has taken on new mean. Really. Be a man for once


You should practice what you preach. read your post while looking in the mirror. It may help you see you for what you are. The answer awaits you.
:p

[Mavrik28]

So lets change the subject and get something healthy going.
Healthy?
Well lets talk about health.
. Since HGH is the burning question and the Yankees have a history of cheaters. Giambi Sheff. Better known as the JUICE BROTHERS and yankee great jason grismly getting busted. I am sure some more Yankees will be exposed as cheaters in the coming future.
. So my question is. How do you feel knowing that you have cheaters that have no respect or integrity to the game?

Do you turn a blind eye because they wear pinstripes?

And do you think the use of roids and hgh will shorten thier lives?

So no Red Sox player ever did roids or HGH? Vagitek or Trot or Manny or Papi? In fact only Bonds and Yankees players did roids. Is that what you want to say? Take off the Red Sox glasses.

Then again the steroid investigation is being handled by a Red Sox owner. No he's not biased.

Did Giambi or Sheff or Bonds ever fail a test? Nope. Giambi was man enough to admit and it took alot for him to get it going. And now that he's clean he has returned to form and is putting up great numbers. Even Big Sloppi Ortiz came out and publicly gave Giambi credit for getting clean and returning to form.

Who says Yankees fans like Sheff? Suddenly you can speak for all of them.

[robertbee]

People like bee can hate the Yankees all they want.

I don't hate the Yankees. I just like to beat them. No hatred in me. You are the one that defines hate in all your post. Its kind of sad. Once day may you find happiness.
I pray for you. I really do. My door is alway open if you need help. Or you could call 1800-get help...Free of charge. Good luck and may you find what your looking for.

[robertbee]

Did Giambi or Sheff or Bonds ever fail a test?

Your stupidity blind you my child. The average and below average fans know's the truth. If you deny that you prove that you fall under the below average fan.
And no it was not just Yankkes and Bonds.

Another client of BALCO is Jason Giambi Canseco's massive bulk led to rumors about him well before he admitted to it, while Caminiti had one of the biggest fluke seasons of all time in 1996 Caminiti was much bigger than ever in ‘ 96, and he quickly lost it. He also displayed the facial acne associated with steroid use. Big Mac, Sosa,

Be real for once.

[Mavrik28]

Your stupidity blind you my child. The average and below average fans know's the truth. If you deny that you prove that you fall under the below average fan.
And no it was not just Yankkes and Bonds.

Another client of BALCO is Jason Giambi Canseco's massive bulk led to rumors about him well before he admitted to it, while Caminiti had one of the biggest fluke seasons of all time in 1996 Caminiti was much bigger than ever in ‘ 96, and he quickly lost it. He also displayed the facial acne associated with steroid use. Big Mac, Sosa,

Be real for once.

I never said they didn't do HGH or roids. They never failed a test so they didn't cheat. Basbeall had no policy. Players could do whatever they wanted. Some chose to use roids some chose not too.

[robertbee]

I never said they didn't do HGH or roids. They never failed a test so they didn't cheat. Basbeall had no policy. Players could do whatever they wanted. Some chose to use roids some chose not too.

So your saying its ok to cheat your teamates and the fans and all the past greats that have earned thier records the hard way. With honesty integrity and no short cut through the woods? Cheating is cheating. When a player goes into the bathroom stall and injects hgh or roids in his butt to better his skills. That my boy is cheating. Cheating his teamates, his fans, and his family and maybe his live. IF you think thats ok. That's your progivtive. But I think it wrong. But if they were pinstripes then you can sugar coat it.

[Mark Weber]

So the Redsox were a racist organization in the past.... oh no they will be racist forever... damn i guess i will have to find a new favorite team because they were racist in the past.

I'm not making myself clear. I'm not trying to convince diehard Red Sox fans to abandon their favorite team. I'm just trying to convey why I think your favorite team (both present and throughout their history) sucks.

[Vinnie4]

Hey robert, do you really think all Red Sox players are clean? Or are you looking at the world through Red Sox colored glasses?

[Mark Weber]

both were showing the pitcher up.... one (Howard) watching a ball thinking it was a homerun.

second was Hillenbrand walking to first base on a strike call.

on both occasions the hitters were trying to show up Beckett. So Beckett let them know he didnt appreciate it.

alot of pitchers use to do this. Some of the all time greats wouldnt let you show them up. Perhaps Beckett has that old time mentality. Which i like personally.

More pitchers should do stuff like this and not let hitters do what they want. There should be more pitching inside and backing hitters off the plate. Most pitchers are afraid though for some reason.

Toight, here's a link and the text from the Boston Globe article where Beckett says he handled it poorly and it was his fault. You really don't need to defend him on a point he concedes but whatever floats your boat.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/03/27/beckett_howard_star_in_daytime_drama/

''He was jogging after a pop up," Beckett said. ''It's not like I wanted to fight the guy. I wanted to make a point. You look like a jackass whenever you hit a ball like that and you're pimping it and you're out. I'm kind of about respecting the game. Even if it is a home run, I don't think it's the right thing to do. I'm not the type of guy to not say anything.


''I was just expressing my concern with the way he's playing the game. He didn't do that last year. He won Rookie of the Year, he hit a bunch of home runs, I guess you get one year in the big leagues and things just change."

Howard's take: ''See, I'd hit it, and at the contact point I didn't know where it went. If I was going to do something like pimp it or whatever, he'd have known."
Beckett spoke his piece and, Howard said, ''For me it was over. I really wasn't thinking about it anymore."

But, when Howard went out in the top of the seventh to play first base, Beckett, standing in the dugout, kept hurling words his way.



''That's where I handled it wrong," Beckett said. ''That's probably where I should have been a bigger man. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's my fault."

[Mark Weber]

You only bring it up because you want to make the Sox look bad. Instead having an inteligent conversation you use the past racism as a tool to make the Sox look bad. What you bring up has no bearing on the this organization today. Its a black eye from the past when they were run by a racist. Mr yawkey. Alot of 'OLD MONEY" was made due to slavery. And to this day it is still around. Using the race card to tarnish the Sox would have been merited back then. Today it has no bearing or merit.

And you will not take my pride away as well.

GO SOX!


http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v93/warrngtn/fight7.jpg



Arroyo didn't hit him on purpose I don’t think anyone watching the game could claim that. Arod overreacted almost as bad as Manny did in the '03 playoffs (Clemens)
Arod should have shut his mouth and taken the base like a man. Arod starts mouthing off to Arroyo like he just got pegged intentionally. Is Jason Varitek supposed to just let Arod have his way with the 26 year old kid on the mound? credit Arroyo for not backing down and barking right back at Arod. So Varitek tells Arod to shut it, Arod tosses some F-bombs Varitek's way, and Varitek just loses it. I would have done the same thing. Adog should have just taken the base like he's suppose too. Instead Tek jawed him and shut him up for good. Made him look like a fool. A.... Afool :D


I'm not defending A-Rod's mouth like you're defending Varitek's punch. As a big sox fan I'm sure you remember Pedro's pitch that sailed behind Karim Garcia innings before Roger through the high fastball (that was still over the plate) that Manny blew a gasket over. A-Rod got hit, Manny did not. I'm sure you consider that a semantic point.

I'm not trying to take your Red Sox pride away robert, just expressing my opinion on why your favorite organization has very little to be proud of.

[Mark Weber]

On a good note weather permitting the Sox will have the future in the lineup today. Lester, Papelbon and Hansen all on the same roster. NICE!

Well now we agree on something.

Papelbon: future Astro
Hansen: future Yankee
Lester: future Mariner

:)

[fenwayp]

Is it possible for Mark Weber to BAN Mark Weber ?
That would sure be great :D :eek:

[Mark Weber]

So lets change the subject and get something healthy going.
Healthy?
Well lets talk about health.
. Since HGH is the burning question and the Yankees have a history of cheaters. Giambi Sheff. Better known as the JUICE BROTHERS and yankee great jason grismly getting busted. I am sure some more Yankees will be exposed as cheaters in the coming future.
. So my question is. How do you feel knowing that you have cheaters that have no respect or integrity to the game?

Do you turn a blind eye because they wear pinstripes?

And do you think the use of roids and hgh will shorten thier lives?

Painting Jason Grimsley as a "former Yankee" as though he's remembered for his two seasons in pinstripes only showcases your agenda. I could jsut as easily point to former Red Sox OF/P Jose Canseco and mention Boston's "history of cheating" if I wanted to sink to that level.

Giambi and Sheffield were forthright about their use of illegal substances (at least as far as we know - it's altogether possible that their use was more significant than they admitted to). Don't forget Jim Leyritz, who recently acknowledged the use of amphetamines on at least one occasion. I'm disappointed in Giambi and Sheffield, though I think of all the accused players, Giambi has been the most apologetic and contrite.

If you think there aren't/weren't abusers on the Sox as well you're absolutely dreaming. Where'd Millar and Bellhorn's power go?

As for shortening their lives, I think HGH and Steroid use can certainly have an effect if the drugs were used heavily enough.

[fenwayp]

Red Sox fans and Yankee fans really just need to enjoy the back and forth without the personal attacks all the time.

[Mark Weber]

Mark, bringing up owners, eh? Not sure you want to go down that road. After all, it wasn't the Red Sox who hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on a Hall of Famer and Yankee legend. It wasn't any part of the Red Sox ownership who were BANNED from baseball. Which owner was indicted on over a dozen charges for illegal campaign contributions?

And loyalty? Which team changed managers 20 times in 23 years?

Before I call this a day, here's a quote from the boss:

"I am dead set against free agency. It can ruin baseball."

I'm not going to defend the conduct that got George Steinbrenner suspended, or his knack for hiring and firing managers in the first 2/3 of his ownership. Lotalty brought Billy Martin back three times though...

I'm not sure why you'd bring up a quote showing Steinbrenner was dead-set against free agency, other than to illustrate that the Yankee owner didn't want the system everyone accuses him of taking competitive advantage from.

[Yukoner]

So against the Yankees, they don't put up with crap from a punk, but if it's against the Jays, it is badmouthing?

I must have missed something. When did a Blue Jay get hit by a pitch, scream at the pitcher, then get trucked by Varitek in the face?

[robertbee]

Where'd Millar and Bellhorn's power go?


Baltimore. and San Diego.

[Mark Weber]

Is it possible for Mark Weber to BAN Mark Weber ?
That would sure be great :D :eek:

I think you're the only diehard Sox fan on this thread who hasn't made a personal attack on me fenwayp - thanks for at least keeping the trash talk on a professional level. :)

[fenwayp]

2006 / New York Yankees
TOTAL PAYROLL = $ 194,663,079

Player Salary Position

Rodriguez, Alex $ 21,680,727
Jeter, Derek $ 20,600,000
Giambi, Jason $ 20,428,571
Mussina, Mike $ 19,000,000
Johnson, Randy $ 15,661,427
Damon, Johnny $ 13,000,000
Matsui, Hideki $ 13,000,000
Posada, Jorge $ 12,000,000
Sheffield, Gary $ 10,756,171
Rivera, Mariano $ 10,500,000
Pavano, Carl $ 8,000,000
Wright, Jaret $ 7,666,667
Farnsworth, Kyle $ 5,416,666
Chacon, Shawn $ 3,600,000
Villone, Ron $ 2,250,000
Dotel, Octavio $ 2,000,000
Sturtze, Tanyon $ 1,500,000
Williams, Bernie $ 1,500,000
Small, Aaron $ 1,200,000
Myers, Mike $ 1,150,000
Cairo, Miguel $ 1,000,000
Stinnett, Kelly $ 650,000
Cano, Robinson $ 381,000
Crosby , Bubba $ 354,250
Wang, Chien-Ming $ 353,175
Proctor, Scott $ 352,675
Phillips, Andy $ 333,150
Nieves, Wil $ 328,600

[fenwayp]

2006 / Boston Red Sox
TOTAL PAYROLL = $ 120,099,824

Player Salary Position

Ramirez, Manny $ 18,279,238
Schilling, Curt $ 13,000,000
Varitek, Jason $ 10,000,000
Clement, Matt $ 9,825,000
Lowell, Mike $ 9,000,000
Foulke, Keith $ 7,750,000
Nixon, Trot $ 7,500,000
Ortiz, David $ 6,500,000
Beckett, Josh $ 4,325,000
Wells, David $ 4,075,000
Wakefield, Tim $ 4,000,000
Tavarez, Julian $ 3,350,000
Loretta, Mark $ 3,250,000
Timlin, Mike $ 3,023,894
Crisp, Coco $ 2,750,000
Gonzalez, Alex Luis $ 2,682,592
Snow, J.T. $ 2,000,000
Seanez, Rudy $ 1,900,000
Riske, David $ 1,800,000
Cora, Alex $ 1,400,000
Pena, Wily Mo $ 1,250,000
Choi, Hee Seop $ 725,000
Youkilis, Kevin $ 354,600
Bard, Josh $ 353,400
DiNardo, Lenny $ 335,700
Papelbon, Jonathan $ 335,400
Stern, Adam $ 335,000

[robertbee]

Hey robert, do you really think all Red Sox players are clean? Or are you looking at the world through Red Sox colored glasses?

I wondered about Nomar. But who would you say has grown into a monster? Gabe Kapler? He's a health nut. Only person I can think of. Big Papi? he is on the David Wells diet of hot dogs and soda. Manny? I dont think he could stick a needle in himself? Clemens? I hope not. Red Sox win with talent. They dont need to cheat.
ps. A's just scored 2 more to go up 4-1 due to cano's error opening up the inning. Nice job Cano. Looks like a hole in the Canoe.

[fenwayp]

2006

Team Total payroll

New York Yankees $ 194,663,079
Boston Red Sox $ 120,099,824
Los Angeles Angels $ 103,472,000
Chicago White Sox $ 102,750,667
New York Mets $ 101,084,963
Los Angeles Dodgers $ 98,447,187
Chicago Cubs $ 94,424,499
Houston Astros $ 92,551,503
Atlanta Braves $ 90,156,876
San Francisco Giants $ 90,056,419
St. Louis Cardinals $ 88,891,371
Philadelphia Phillies $ 88,273,333
Seattle Mariners $ 87,959,833
Detroit Tigers $ 82,612,866
Baltimore Orioles $ 72,585,582
Toronto Blue Jays $ 71,915,000
San Diego Padres $ 69,896,141
Texas Rangers $ 68,228,662
Minnesota Twins $ 63,396,006
Washington Nationals $ 63,143,000
Oakland Athletics $ 62,243,079
Cincinnati Reds $ 60,909,519
Arizona Diamondbacks $ 59,684,226
Milwaukee Brewers $ 57,568,333
Cleveland Indians $ 56,031,500
Kansas City Royals $ 47,294,000
Pittsburgh Pirates $ 46,717,750
Colorado Rockies $ 41,233,000
Tampa Bay Devil Rays $ 35,417,967
Florida Marlins $ 14,998,500

[Vinnie4]

I must have missed something. When did a Blue Jay get hit by a pitch, scream at the pitcher, then get trucked by Varitek in the face?
I was talking about the Hillenbrand/Beckett situation

[Mark Weber]

So your saying its ok to cheat your teamates and the fans and all the past greats that have earned thier records the hard way. With honesty integrity and no short cut through the woods? Cheating is cheating. When a player goes into the bathroom stall and injects hgh or roids in his butt to better his skills. That my boy is cheating. Cheating his teamates, his fans, and his family and maybe his live. IF you think thats ok. That's your progivtive. But I think it wrong. But if they were pinstripes then you can sugar coat it.

In case you missed it above bee, what's your take on steroid abusing Red Sox OF Jose Canseco? Does he give Boston a "history of cheating" too? DO you "sugar coat it" since he was one of the Sawx?

Your options:

1. Make another personal attack.
2. Defend admitted steroid abuser Jose Canseco because he was a Red Sox player.
3. Ignore the post altogether even though everyone knows you read it.
4. Remind everyone that Canseco was a Yankee for two months.
5. Admit that the steroid/HGH problem is likely bigger than we'll ever know, and that every team probably has had a few abusers on their roster over the last decade.

[fenwayp]

Red Sox Payroll for 2006 is 61% of what the Yankees payroll is.

Red Sox spend a lot of money as well, but the Yankees payroll is still through the roof in comparison...which I am perfectly fine with...It just makes it THAT MUCH MORE ENJOYABLE Everytime the Yankees lose :)

[Therman Merman]

While I will be the first to admit that the Yankees payroll is out of control, I still laugh when a Red Sox fan brings up payroll, as if being 2nd in payroll is that much better. Yes, I am aware that there is a $70 million difference between the two teams, but do you think a Pirates, Marlins or Devil Rays fan feels any sympathy for the Red Sox? I got news for ya, you're just as bad in their eyes.

And I don't want to hear, "well if we want to compete with the Yankees, then we have to spend the money". As if that is some sort of argument in their favor. Until there's a salary cap, (which will never happen) then you have to spend money to have a realistic chance. That's just the nature of the game today. Love it or leave it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You want to compete every year? Then spend the money, and admit you're as much a part of the "problem" with baseball as the Yankees are. You're not better then them because you're only 2nd!!! That logic is ludicrous. Remember, People who live in glass houses don't throw stones.

[Vinnie4]

2006

Team Total payroll

New York Yankees $ 194,663,079
Boston Red Sox $ 120,099,824
Los Angeles Angels $ 103,472,000
Chicago White Sox $ 102,750,667
New York Mets $ 101,084,963
Los Angeles Dodgers $ 98,447,187
Chicago Cubs $ 94,424,499
Houston Astros $ 92,551,503
Atlanta Braves $ 90,156,876
San Francisco Giants $ 90,056,419
St. Louis Cardinals $ 88,891,371
Philadelphia Phillies $ 88,273,333
Seattle Mariners $ 87,959,833
Detroit Tigers $ 82,612,866
Baltimore Orioles $ 72,585,582
Toronto Blue Jays $ 71,915,000
San Diego Padres $ 69,896,141
Texas Rangers $ 68,228,662
Minnesota Twins $ 63,396,006
Washington Nationals $ 63,143,000
Oakland Athletics $ 62,243,079
Cincinnati Reds $ 60,909,519
Arizona Diamondbacks $ 59,684,226
Milwaukee Brewers $ 57,568,333
Cleveland Indians $ 56,031,500
Kansas City Royals $ 47,294,000
Pittsburgh Pirates $ 46,717,750
Colorado Rockies $ 41,233,000
Tampa Bay Devil Rays $ 35,417,967
Florida Marlins $ 14,998,500

Please tell me as a fan of the Number 2 payroll in baseball that you aren't whining about what the Yankees spend.

[robertbee]

In case you missed it above bee, what's your take on steroid abusing Red Sox OF Jose Canseco? Does he give Boston a "history of cheating" too? DO you "sugar coat it" since he was one of the Sawx?


Never liked Jose as an A's, Yankee, Red or White Sox. pos in my opinion. His arrogance made me sick. He's right up there with Sheffield, Lofton, Kevin Brown. Not a good teamate and falls into the pantheon of biggest jerks in sports. Him and Jack Clark were bad signings. They were not fit to wear the glorious uniforms we call Red Sox.

[fenwayp]

Please tell me as a fan of the Number 2 payroll in baseball that you aren't whining about what the Yankees spend.

Can't you plainly see that I posted BOTH FRIGGIN' PAYROLLS ???????????
I even posted that I don't give a damn that the Yankees spend more money...it just makes it funnier when they spend all that money and don't win. I am NOT complaining about payroll levels.

I posted both so we could discuss it, but obviously some of you are so DAMN sensitive to the topic, that you can't just take it at face value.

Get a grip !! :rolleyes:

[robertbee]

While I will be the first to admit that the Yankees payroll is out of control, I still laugh when a Red Sox fan brings up payroll, as if being 2nd in payroll is that much better

I have said it over and over. 2nd highest payroll. 2 place in al east. Yankees drive up the market. They set the bar. to compete you have to pay players. Otherwise the Yankees would win it every year. How do you compete if you dont pay players? You end up like Tampa. Blue Jays got into the game this year. High payroll? Why? AL EAST. They have to compete with Yankee money Red Sox money. Now blue jay money. And baltimore stepped up somewhat . If you look at the standing.

1.. Yankees... Opps I mean Sox:D
2.Yankees
3.Jays'
4.baltimore.

Kind of ironic that they alway finsih that way (Yankees winning the AL East the last 10 years)

They set the bar. So everytime you say Red Sox 2nd highest payroll it a poor argument since its the Yankees that are in the drivers seat driving up the payrolls.
Simple economics

[fenwayp]

I am mostly amazed at the Marlins $14MM payroll...

[robertbee]

Get a grip !! :rolleyes:


Amen!
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005QENZ.08._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[fenwayp]

Yankee fans are just in a pisspoor state because they see that they will be swept by the A's this weekend and see their season going down the toilet with Matsui and Sheffield both out for nearly the rest of the season...that's a lot of money and talent riding pine...

4-2 Oakland in the 6th...Mussina can't even stop the inevitable freefall that the Yankees are about to go into :)

[fenwayp]

Beckett and Schilling make a COMBINED $17.3 Million.
Mussina and Johnson make a combined $34.6 Million.

For those challenged in the Math category, that means that Mussina and Johnson make exactly DOUBLE the salary that Schilling and Beckett make...

So, for all of these comparisons of each team's top two pitchers, it is close to a wash with respect to the stats and output, while the Yankees are grossly overpaying for their two top starters compared to Boston. So, which is better business ? YOU DECIDE :)

[Therman Merman]

Gee, that's funny. I could've sworn the Yankees just took 2 out of 3 from the Sox this week. Not to mention taking 2 out of 3 from the Sox a couple of weeks ago, in Fenway. Strange amount of success for a team whose season is going down the toilet.

[Vinnie4]

I have said it over and over. 2nd highest payroll. 2 place in al east. Yankees drive up the market. They set the bar. to compete you have to pay players. Otherwise the Yankees would win it every year. How do you compete if you dont pay players? You end up like Tampa. Blue Jays got into the game this year. High payroll? Why? AL EAST. They have to compete with Yankee money Red Sox money. Now blue jay money. And baltimore stepped up somewhat . If you look at the standing.

1.. Yankees... Opps I mean Sox:D
2.Yankees
3.Jays'
4.baltimore.

Kind of ironic that they alway finsih that way (Yankees winning the AL East the last 10 years)

They set the bar. So everytime you say Red Sox 2nd highest payroll it a poor argument since its the Yankees that are in the drivers seat driving up the payrolls.
Simple economics


Hey fenwayp, this is EXACTLY why I posted what I did. Because of this type of whining by Red Sox fans.

[robertbee]

Hey bad news. 1st 2 batters get on Williams and Damon can't do anything. Then....MR Clutch strikes out out with men on the 2nd and 3rd. Thats the Jeter I know. Way to be a team leader!

[fenwayp]

Gee, that's funny. I could've sworn the Yankees just took 2 out of 3 from the Sox this week. Not to mention taking 2 out of 3 from the Sox a couple of weeks ago, in Fenway. Strange amount of success for a team whose season is going down the toilet.

I'm just saying that a tailspin is imminent and likely. It is a prediction.

Thus far, I give the Yankees credit. They have reponded very well to losing Matsui and Sheffield. I just think they can not CONTINUE to sustain these losses in personel and hold it together. I could be wrong, but I believe that while many Yankees fans are confident, many are also quietly concerned...

[Vinnie4]

I love how Red Sox fans talk smack about being clutch. Do you honestly believe ANYONE will hit everytime they are up? Baseball is a game when if you fail 7 out of 10 times, you are considered successful. I remember against the Yankees, Ortiz struck out late in the game with the chance to at least tie the game. Sounds like failure to me. Don't talk to me about leaders.....Varitek wears a big C on his jersey, and hasn't done much of anything. And only 4 hits against their division rival. Now THAT is leadership.

[robertbee]

Proctor....Nice job. He should think about switching to the proctology trade. He Stinks. bada bing

[fenwayp]

Vinnie is clearly STILL watching the Yankees fall to the Athletics this afternoon. Giambi's error costs the Yankees yet another run...5-2 A's lead with 2 outs and based still loaded in the 8th...

[Vinnie4]

I uderstand you Sox fans need to rejoice the fact that the A's are beating the Yankees. We all know the Red Sox couldn't get the job done.

[fenwayp]

I uderstand you Sox fans need to rejoice the fact that the A's are beating the Yankees. We all know the Red Sox couldn't get the job done.

Last time I checked, the season series between the Sox and Yankees is tied, 5-5 after 10 games played. You'll be in a better mood after you get closure on yet another Yankee loss to the A's...

[BlakChamber]

I'm pretty sure that Manny and Ortiz could run Toight and Roberbee's mothers over with a car, set their bodies on fire, then piss on the charred remains, and Toight and Bee would still love them. They'd probably blame their mothers for getting in the way.

I love this thread, comedy at its finest :D

[Vinnie4]

2 consecutive sereis wins against Boston. Funny how this is a Yankees/Red Sox trash talking thread, but Sox fans can only talk when the Yankees play someone else.

[Vinnie4]

I'm pretty sure that Manny and Ortiz could run Toight and Roberbee's mothers over with a car, set their bodies on fire, then piss on the charred remains, and Toight and Bee would still love them. They'd probably blame their mother's for getting in the way.

I love this thread, comedy at its finest :D

Now this is funny. Thank you for the laugh BlakChamber.

[fenwayp]

Bases loaded in the bottom of the 8th and Hideki Matsu...err..Kevin Thompson hits into a harmless FC and the Yankees strand even more runnners. It's okay Yankee fans, the game will be over soon....

[Vinnie4]

Hey fenwayp, where were you when Melky scored from first base on a passed ball against the Red Sox? Where was all this talk when Beckett lasted 1 1/3 innings, and looked foolish?

[robertbee]

I love how... funny how.... your becoming redundant.
Funny how ....you have become redundant
I like how ....you have become redundant. :rolleyes:


poor poor proctor flushed from the mound. better get the plunger out. :D Yankees sucking up the joint

[Mark Weber]

So the Yankees lost the first two games of a weekend set in Oakland in early June, and their injury-ridled team could fall 1.5 games out of first if Boston wins today. Six of the nine players in today's batting order are homegrown prospects BTW. I think all the Yankee fans here will agree on those points.

Can we get back on-topic - why do you think players don't want to stay on the Red Sox? :)

[Vinnie4]

I love how... funny how.... your becoming redundant.
Funny how ....you have become redundant
I like how ....you have become redundant. :rolleyes:


poor poor proctor flushed from the mound. better get the plunger out. :D Yankees sucking up the joint
2004 blah blah blah, Yankees highest payroll blah blah blah, no championships this decade or century blah blah blah.
Talk about redundant.:rolleyes:

[fenwayp]

Hey fenwayp, where were you when Melky scored from first base on a passed ball against the Red Sox? Where was all this talk when Beckett lasted 1 1/3 innings, and looked foolish?

Again, let's explain a few basics for Vinnie here :

People DON'T TALK TRASH when they have nothing to say.
People DO TALK TRASH when they have something to say.

Simple. :D

[robertbee]

Can we get back on-topic - why do you think players don't want to stay on the Red Sox? :)

names please?

[Vinnie4]

Again, let's explain a few basics for Vinnie here :

People DON'T TALK TRASH when they have nothing to say.
People DO TALK TRASH when they have something to say.

Simple. :D
Thank you for proving my point that Sox fans only flap their gums when someone else play the Yankees.

[robertbee]

Mr Clutch errr. Jeter strike out again to end the game. Nice job CAPTIAN. 3 game losing streak.. Were the Yankees home? yes. Should of prayed for rain. THe Yankees lose. The Yankees lose.

Thanks for the entertainment today its been a blast. :D

[Vinnie4]

Mr Clutch errr. Jeter strike out again to end the game. Nice job CAPTIAN. 3 game losing streak.. Were the Yankees home? yes. Should of prayed for rain. THe Yankees lose. The Yankees lose.

Thanks for the entertainment today its been a blast. :D
And where is captain Varitek's contributions? His last game against the Yankees has been his only production against them this year. How is that for a captain's production, when can't produce against your chief rival? I'm sure if I tune into the Sox game later, I'll see great production from a captain, right?

[Mavrik28]

Mr Clutch errr. Jeter strike out again to end the game. Nice job CAPTIAN. 3 game losing streak.. Were the Yankees home? yes. Should of prayed for rain. THe Yankees lose. The Yankees lose.

Thanks for the entertainment today its been a blast. :D


What the hell does captian mean? Not sure what that word is. Did you mean Captain?

Take a look at your captain. He needs to wear a C so he knows he's the captain. And great numbers he's putting up this year. Vagitek is a joke.

[Mavrik28]

I wondered about Nomar. But who would you say has grown into a monster? Gabe Kapler? He's a health nut. Only person I can think of. Big Papi? he is on the David Wells diet of hot dogs and soda. Manny? I dont think he could stick a needle in himself? Clemens? I hope not. Red Sox win with talent. They dont need to cheat.
ps. A's just scored 2 more to go up 4-1 due to cano's error opening up the inning. Nice job Cano. Looks like a hole in the Canoe.

The Red Sox win with talent. Please. Took them 86 years to win just once. They broke the bank to win in 2004. Schilling and Foulke were hired guns. Cabrera and Doug were rental players. They use cash to win.

[Mavrik28]

Count the number of black players and black fans at Fenway. The black community still to this day could care less about the Red Sox. The last great black player they had was Mo Vaughn and he was treated like dirt by the racist Yawkey ownership. Race is an issue in everday life and it is a part of the Red Sox history. Last team in baseball to integrate says alot about them.

[Vinnie4]

I wondered about Nomar. But who would you say has grown into a monster? Gabe Kapler? He's a health nut. Only person I can think of. Big Papi? he is on the David Wells diet of hot dogs and soda. Manny? I dont think he could stick a needle in himself? Clemens? I hope not. Red Sox win with talent. They dont need to cheat.
ps. A's just scored 2 more to go up 4-1 due to cano's error opening up the inning. Nice job Cano. Looks like a hole in the Canoe.
And you say the Yankees fan speak with arrogance. Are you really that ignorant robert, or do you just type everything out of blind love for Boston? If ignorance is bliss, robert must be the happiest person on Earth.

[Sbells]

Count the number of pblack players and black fans at Fenway. The black community still to this day could care less about the Red Sox. The last great black player they had was Mo Vaughn and he was treated like dirt by the racist Yawkey ownership. Race is an issur ein everday life and it defnies the Red Sox still to this day. Last team in baseball to integrate says a lot about them.

What the hell does pblack mean? Not sure what that word is. Did you mean black?

What a tool. If you're going to call someone out on his typing, at least double check yours. Good god...

[Mavrik28]

names please?

Hello MANNY RAMIREZ. Every year he has been in Boston he's asked to be traded. Just a matter of time until he does it again.

[robertbee]

And you say the Yankees fan speak with arrogance. Are you really that ignorant robert, or do you just type everything out of blind love for Boston? If ignorance is bliss, robert must be the happiest person on Earth
Vinnie4


please explain Vincent? Arrofant about what? Ignorant about what? You lable with no difintion of your statement? That is ignorant my friend. ;)

[AS251BR]

Go A's!

They take the series and the season series against the Yankees.

BTW, how many former A's do the Yankees have? Giambi, Damon, Long and Durazo in the minors, anybody else?

[robertbee]

What the hell does pblack mean? Not sure what that word is. Did you mean black?

What a tool. If you're going to call someone out on his typing, at least double check yours. Good god
Sbells


Ding ding ding. WINNER WINNER ALRERT

The kettle calling the pot black. I wonder how many black kettles or pots are in the kitchen at Fenway. hmmm. probably none we dont like our kettle or pots burnt.

[Vinnie4]

please explain Vincent? Arrofant about what? Ignorant about what? You lable with no difintion of your statement? That is ignorant my friend. ;)
That is why I quoted you, so you would know of what I speak. Do you honestly believe that NO Sox players have cheated to get ahead? Why is it that the Yankees are all cheaters in your eyes, but every Boston player is clean? That would be ingorance, and arrogance.

[robertbee]

Go A's!


SWEEP

The Janks own Zito maybe he can squeak out a win.

[robertbee]

That is why I quoted you, so you would know of what I speak. Do you honestly believe that NO Sox players have cheated to get ahead? Why is it that the Yankees are all cheaters in your eyes, but every Boston player is clean? That would be ingorance, and arrogance.

2 word.... JUICE BROTHERS



HELLO :rolleyes:

[Mavrik28]

What the hell does pblack mean? Not sure what that word is. Did you mean black?

What a tool. If you're going to call someone out on his typing, at least double check yours. Good god...

I went back and fixed it. Something robertbee never does. And second, I hardly ever make spelling or grammar errors. Go back to every one of my posts. Barely any spelling errors. And when I notice them after the fact, I go back and correct them.

Oh and go to hell. Nobody asked you and nobody cares about you. Is there even a baseball team in Wisconsin?

[Mavrik28]

2 word.... JUICE BROTHERS



HELLO :rolleyes:

That would be 2 WORDS. Juice is one word and brothers is another word. 1 plus 1 is 2. 1 word plus 1 word equals 2 words. I guess you failed math also. Not suprised. Red Sox fans struggle with math. They think 1 is greater then 26.

[Mavrik28]

please explain Vincent? Arrofant about what? Ignorant about what? You lable with no difintion of your statement? That is ignorant my friend. ;)

Not knowing how to spell is ignorant. You must have never gotten past high school.

[robertbee]

Originally Posted by Mavrik28
Count the number of pblack players and black fans at Fenway. The black community still to this day could care less about the Red Sox. The last great black player they had was Mo Vaughn and he was treated like dirt by the racist Yawkey ownership. Race is an issur ein everday life and it defnies the Red Sox still to this day. Last team in baseball to integrate says a lot about them.


I don't look at people's race. I look at everyone equal. Once you learn that you will no be the racist. You use race as a weapon to put down the Sox for your own personal vandetta against me. Thinking that it bothers me because the Sox had a racisit owner.
That is a form of racisim. So you my friend should think about casting stones because you are no better than Tom Yawlkey.

[AS251BR]

SWEEP

The Janks own Zito maybe he can squeak out a win.

If Saarloos can beat Mussina in Yankee Stadium, anything's possible.

[robertbee]

Yeah the Mighty Moose. looked like a Goose today

[fenwayp]

Why does everything have to be about racism with you guys ? I thought it didn't matter what color people's skin is ? So why, when I go to Fenway, or any other place, would I actually be COUNTING or even NOTICING how many people are black, white, hispanic, etc...I don't take the color of anyone's skin into account, because it doesn't matter. Now, if you're wearing a YANKEES hat, then...well, that's a different story :)

[Vinnie4]

Yeah the Mighty Moose. looked like a Goose today
Then what would you say of Josh Beckett's last start?

[fenwayp]

Oh yeah...and :

THE
YANKEES
LOSE !!!

THE
YANKEES
LOSE !!!
:)

[Vinnie4]

Why does everything have to be about racism with you guys ? I thought it didn't matter what color people's skin is ? So why, when I go to Fenway, or any other place, would I actually be COUNTING or even NOTICING how many people are black, white, hispanic, etc...I don't take the color of anyone's skin into account, because it doesn't matter. Now, if you're wearing a YANKEES hat, then...well, that's a different story :)
A point we can finally agree on. The color I dislike is the Red B I see on basball caps and shirts.:p Oh, and I'm prejudiced against all the pink and camo Yankees and Red Sox hats. Makes them just look stupid.

[fenwayp]

Beckett and Schilling make a COMBINED $17.3 Million.
Mussina and Johnson make a combined $34.6 Million.

For those challenged in the Math category, that means that Mussina and Johnson make exactly DOUBLE the salary that Schilling and Beckett make...

So, for all of these comparisons of each team's top two pitchers, it is close to a wash with respect to the stats and output, while the Yankees are grossly overpaying for their two top starters compared to Boston. So, which is better business ? YOU DECIDE :)

Didn't get much feedback on this yet :D

[robertbee]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/robertbee/Bsox.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v225/robertbee/?)

Time for some baseball. Sox game is on. NICE. Mavrik if you do watch it do me a favor and count the number of Afro Americans in the stands, Asain, Latinos'
Maybe you can do a poll or something. And I do hope you get over your race issues.
Ignorace is bliss I think someone posted here. I'll be back later but dont hold your breath. And please..Exhale champ.

[Mavrik28]

I don't look at people's race. I look at everyone equal. Once you learn that you will no be the racist. You use race as a weapon to put down the Sox for your own personal vandetta against me. Thinking that it bothers me because the Sox had a racisit owner.
That is a form of racisim. So you my friend should think about casting stones because you are no better than Tom Yawlkey.

Did it bother you that a player like Kirby Puckett chose not to play in Boston because of the stigma of the Red Sox being racist. Or that multiple black players had no-trade clauses in their contracts that said they couldn't be traded to Boston. Seems like you are totally avoiding the issue of race. Race is everywhere you go. You can't deny the past. The Red Sox have a very racist past.

Maybe it makes you uncomfortable to discuss race. Mark brought up the subject and I think it is a very valid point to bring up when not only discussing the Red Sox but sports in general.

How does me choosing to bring up race make me a racist? You still have yet to respond to the issue of black players and the Red Sox past brought up by Mark originally.

[Mavrik28]

Time for some baseball. Sox game is on. NICE. Mavrik if you do watch it do me a favor and count the number of Afro Americans in the stands, Asain, Latinos'
Maybe you can do a poll or something. And I do hope you get over your race issues.
Ignorace is bliss I think someone posted here. I'll be back later but dont hold your breath. And please..Exhale champ.

The issue is African American fans and players, not Asian or Dominican or Spanish. Or do you just lump everyone that isn't white Irish together?

You should read Shut Out by Howard Bryant. Book about race and the Red Sox.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0807009792/sr=8-1/qid=1149976646/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2189348-8768067?%5Fencoding=UTF8

An excerpt about Jim Rice from the book:

Rice never spoke out, but he gave Ellis Burks a telling piece of advice that provided important insight into Rice's feelings about Boston and his years with the Red Sox. They were words Burks would never forget. "Get your six years in," Rice told Burks, "and then get the hell out of Boston."

[Vinnie4]

Didn't get much feedback on this yet :D
The Randy Johnson of old deserves a big contract. The Randy Johnson of this season defintely does not.

[Sbells]

I went back and fixed it. Something robertbee never does. And second, I hardly ever make spelling or grammar errors. Go back to every one of my posts. Barely any spelling errors. And when I notice them after the fact, I go back and correct them.

Oh and go to hell. Nobody asked you and nobody cares about you. Is there even a baseball team in Wisconsin?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I made the kid feel foolish! I'm sure if I went back through your posts, I'd find plenty.

Do you think ANYONE cares about you and your righteous stance to show how racist the Boston franchise is? It's the stupidest comment ever brought into this debate. I mean, I can laugh off the idiots that say ARod isn't clutch once a week because he didn't hit a 6 run home run to end the game. I can laugh off the idiots who constantly use the same worn out comeback about how often Boston has won the championship. To bring race into it is just the most idiotic thing in the world. I'm not surprised after reading this post. For your information, Milwaukee is in Wisconsin. The Brewers... Got it yet?

One last tidbit of information... I'm not from Wisconsin, couldn't care less about the state.

[Mavrik28]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I made the kid feel foolish! I'm sure if I went back through your posts, I'd find plenty.

Do you think ANYONE cares about you and your righteous stance to show how racist the Boston franchise is? It's the stupidest comment ever brought into this debate. I mean, I can laugh off the idiots that say ARod isn't clutch once a week because he didn't hit a 6 run home run to end the game. I can laugh off the idiots who constantly use the same worn out comeback about how often Boston has won the championship. To bring race into it is just the most idiotic thing in the world. I'm not surprised after reading this post. For your information, Milwaukee is in Wisconsin. The Brewers... Got it yet?

One last tidbit of information... I'm not from Wisconsin, couldn't care less about the state.

I know where the damn Brewers are. I didn't bring up race. Mark did. I'm just continuing the discussion. And please go back through my posts if you want to.

And continue to avoid the issue of race. If discussing race makes you uncomfortable then put me on your ignore list. You clearly can't handle the issue of race. Race is an everday issue and it plays a big part in sports.

I'm glad you think you made me feel foolish. Good for you. What do you want a damn cookie? I'm crying right now. Oh no some guy on a message board made me feel foolish. Oh boo hoo. Please. Who the hell cares. It's a message board. Who takes any of this stuff serious?

Now race is a serious issue. I bet you voted republican.

[Sbells]

Did it bother you that a player like Kirby Puckett chose not to play in Boston because of the stigma of the Red Sox being racist.

Did it bother you that a player like Kirby Puckett chose not to play in Boston because of the stigma of the Red Sox being racist?


Or that multiple black players had no-trade clauses in their contracts that said they couldn't be traded to Boston.

Or that multiple black players had no-trade clauses in their contracts that said they couldn't be traded to Boston?

Seems like you are totally avoiding the issue of race. Race is everywhere you go. You can't deny the past. The Red Sox have a very racist past.

Maybe it makes you uncomfortable to discuss race. Mark brought up the subject and I think it is a very valid point to bring up when not only discussing the Red Sox but sports in general.

How does me choosing to bring up race make me a racist? You still have yet to respond to the issue of black players and the Red Sox past brought up by Mark originally.

Now, I didn't even get into sentence structure.

I skimmed one page, and found those in one post. You could have even used a comma (it looks like this: , ).

Normally I'd tell someone to stop while they are ahead, however I can't say that in this situation. You ripped on his grammar, I pointed out your error, and you became bitchy. It's in your hands to stop this before I make you look like more of a jerk.

[Sbells]

That would be 2 WORDS. Juice is one word and brothers is another word. 1 plus 1 is 2. 1 word plus 1 word equals 2 words. I guess you failed math also. Not suprised. Red Sox fans struggle with math. They think 1 is greater then 26.

I see that he typed "2 words", "2 words" is also quoted... What am I missing?

[Sbells]

I know where the damn Brewers are. I didn't bring up race. Mark did. I'm just continuing the discussion.

Please read my post again. I never stated that you brought it up, I simply commented on how you appear to be making it your duty to educate the world on the Red Sox racist past.

[Mavrik28]

I see that he typed "2 words", "2 words" is also quoted... What am I missing?

He went back and fixed it after I brought it up.

[Mavrik28]

I don't care what you have to say. Now Malcom X and MLK they had something important to say.

[Mavrik28]

Please read my post again. I never stated that you brought it up, I simply commented on how you appear to be making it your duty to educate the world on the Red Sox racist past.

This is a thread to talk trash. Its a place to bring up faults of the Yanks and Red Sox. And race is one issue the Red Sox have failed miserably on.

[Yukoner]

I love it. The grammar police getting nailed over and over again for grammatical mistakes.

As an aside, are we actually arguing which team is more racist in a sport that prohibited all non-caucasians from playing for almost 60 years? That's like debating who is uglier, Lyle Lovett or Steve Buschemi.

[Mavrik28]

Oh and Sbells. I'm alot older then you so next time make sure you know who you are calling kid.

[Sbells]

He went back and fixed it after I brought it up.

I went back and fixed it. Something robertbee never does. And second, I hardly ever make spelling or grammar errors.

Is there even a baseball team in Wisconsin?

So that means we're up to 3 false statements from one post.

One more thing... I don't see an edit time on his post. If you edit it within the same minute, no edit time appears. There were 5 minutes between your post and his, so he either didn't edit it or did so before you caught it... Which simply invalidates your statement yet again.

[Sbells]

I love it. The grammar police getting nailed over and over again for grammatical mistakes.

As an aside, are we actually arguing which team is more racist in a sport that prohibited all non-caucasians from playing for almost 60 years? That's like debating who is uglier, Lyle Lovett or Steve Buschemi.

I'm not one to pick apart someone's grammar. I think most people know they are making spelling errors, yet don't go back to fix them. However, if someone is going to make a point of picking on another person's post, I enjoy calling out their shortcomings.

[Mavrik28]

I'm not one to pick apart someone's grammar. I think most people know they are making spelling errors, yet don't go back to fix them. However, if someone is going to make a point of picking on another person's post, I enjoy calling out their shortcomings.

The only shortcoming is the amoount of Red Sox World Series wins in the past 87 years.

Admit it you are a Red Sox fan.

To take joy in one's shortcomings is just wrong. Its like not hiring a man for a job based on his skin color.

[Sbells]

Oh and Sbells. I'm alot older then you so next time make sure you know who you are calling kid.

That's funny...

I looked at your profile, and you don't have a job and are "loving it". If you're alot older than I am (I'm 23), you have to be AT LEAST 28 years old. You made a comment earlier that robertbee must not have "gotten past high school". This gives me reason to believe you went to college. Now, let's be honest; there aren't too many degrees that require 9-11 years of schooling (I got that number by subtracting 18, the age you likely were when you graduated, from the age you are close to now). If you were working on one of those degrees, you certainly would be smart enough to make sure you used proper grammar when ripping on someone else's post. It's safe to say you don't fall into that category.

So, what exactly have you been doing since you graduated college (assuming you went for a full 4 years) about 7 years ago?

[Sbells]

The only shortcoming is the amoount of Red Sox World Series wins in the past 87 years.

Admit it you are a Red Sox fan.

To take joy in one's shortcomings is just wrong. Its like not hiring a man for a job based on his skin color.

Sorry, not a Boston fan. Cubs here.

Look at yourself. Do you really have that much envy for Red Sox fans that you have to go to the lengths you have to prove their racist? You changed your avatar, changed your signature, changed your location... What's next?

[Mavrik28]

2 word.... JUICE BROTHERS



HELLO :rolleyes:

Hello SBELLS. Look at this here.

Thats what I was correcting bee on. Word should be plural.

[Sbells]

That's funny...

I looked at your profile, and you don't have a job and are "loving it". If you're alot older than I am (I'm 23), you have to be AT LEAST 28 years old. You made a comment earlier that robertbee must not have "gotten past high school". This gives me reason to believe you went to college. Now, let's be honest; there aren't too many degrees that require 9-11 years of schooling (I got that number by subtracting 18, the age you likely were when you graduated, from the age you are close to now). If you were working on one of those degrees, you certainly would be smart enough to make sure you used proper grammar when ripping on someone else's post. It's safe to say you don't fall into that category.

So, what exactly have you been doing since you graduated college (assuming you went for a full 4 years) about 7 years ago?

Wait... I got up to get a drink and it hit me... You have been trying to get a job in Boston, but can't because of the racism?

[Sbells]

Hello SBELLS. Look at this here.

Thats what I was correcting bee on. Word should be plural.

Thanks!

That's why I asked (politely, I might add) in my first post, I thought I may be missing it.

[Sbells]

Wow... Just checked your profile again, and you've changed your interests and your occupation (both having to do with fighting for the cause)... Interesting.

[Sbells]

I'm out for a bit. I'll point out the inaccuracies (that are certain to be there) in your response to me when I get back on. 'Nite!

[robertbee]

http://www.delta4.icom43.net/images/fullsize/spot_the_racist.jpg

[Vinnie4]

I love it. All the flapping gumsd earlier about how the Yankees lost, and the Red Sox couldn't get it done either. Great job Boston. It looks like you guys were lucky game 1 was rained out. Saved you the humiliation of 2 losses in the same day.

[fenwayp]

Red Sox still in 1st Place :)
Yankees still SUCK :D

[robertbee]

Saved you the humiliation of 2 losses in the same day.


humiiliation. its a game man. humiliation would be the post by Mavrik.

Got a doubleheader today 12 and 5. Your dream could come true. Blalock is carrying the Rangers. Good game. Lester got his feet wet. Very enjoyable game to watch. I can understand your resentment since the Jankees lost 3 in a row and fell out of first place. That sucks. Then again. The Yankees suck...The Yankees suck.
Rest up my son. Sunday is anothe day. A's going for a sweep. Go ZITO!:D

[Mark Weber]

The Janks own Zito maybe he can squeak out a win.

Not until July they don't...

[fenwayp]

Not until July they don't...

LOL :eek:

[robertbee]

Getting Zito would be a huge boost to the front of the pitching staff since its made up of pretenders. The Sox have trouble against leftys. I dont know why they let Pettite and Wells walk since they were clutch pitchers and big time playoff pitchers. They gave the Sox so much trouble Wells was tough at the Stadium and Fenway and Petttie was unbeatable at NY. If they had Wells and Andy the last couple of years that could have made the diffrence instead of having this stiffs we know as Small, Chacon and Wang Chacon and Wang would be a good 5th starter but a line up of leftys would just be brutal The Big Mess, Pettite, Wells, with Moose and Chacon would be a formidable and that would give some help to middle releif of Wang Farnsworth, Ericson , Villone and Scott The Proctologist, then again maybe not... that pen is awful.

[Mark Weber]

Getting Zito would be a huge boost to the front of the pitching staff since its made up of pretenders. The Sox have trouble against leftys. I dont know why they let Pettite and Wells walk since they were clutch pitchers and big time playoff pitchers. They gave the Sox so much trouble Wells was tough at the Stadium and Fenway and Petttie was unbeatable at NY. If they had Wells and Andy the last couple of years that could have made the diffrence instead of having this stiffs we know as Small, Chacon and Wang Chacon and Wang would be a good 5th starter but a line up of leftys would just be brutal The Big Mess, Pettite, Wells, with Moose and Chacon would be a formidable and that would give some help to middle releif of Wang Farnsworth, Ericson , Villone and Scott The Proctologist, then again maybe not... that pen is awful.

If the Yankees starters are "pretenders" and the bullpen is "awful" why does New York have a better team ERA than Boston? Do you think Boston has a better pitching staff?

Two of "the stiffs" (Chacon & Small) went 17-3 in the second half of the season to cement New York's 10th straight division tile. Small has been brutal this year, but Chacon was good in his last four starts (3-0 with a 1.64 ERA over 24.1 innings) prior to taking the line drive off his shin and missing two weeks - we'll see how he throws today in his return from the DL.

Pettitte is the guy they miss the most - a workhorse lefty who silenced the running game and always came up big for NY in the postseason. They tried to re-sign him but Andy wanted to return to Texas and raise his kids there. New York couldn't offer him that option. When Wells tapped out in the first inning of his World Series start in 2003 I think George said enough. He was effective in San Diego and Boston the two seasons prior, but his 4.62 ERA since he left is nothing tremendous.

As for the "awful" Yankee bullpen:

Ron Villone (1.75 ERA & 1.29 WHIP - opponents hitting .191 against him)
Mike Myers (.84 ERA & 1.11 ERA - opponents hitting .211 against him)
Mariano Rivera (2.08 ERA & 1.09 WHIP - opponents hitting .248 against him)
Scott Proctor (4.02 ERA & 1.30 WHIP - opponents hitting .237 against him)

Farnsworth has been disappointing thus far but has shown flashes of brilliance (May 24th - striking out David Ortiz in the eighth inning with two outs and two on in an 8-6 Yankees win & punching out Ortiz again then getting Manny Ramirez to pop out to close the eighth inning of New York's 2-1 win over Boston on June 6th). Now maybe the recent dominance against Ortiz isn't all that impressive (I mean Papi is only hitting .256 this season) but I always seem to read how CLUTCH he is in this thread...

Erickson is just renting space until Tanyon Sturtze or Octavio Dotel come off the DL.
Dotel was one of the most-overlooked signings of the off-season. Since becoming a full-time reliever in 2001, his numbers are very impressive:

26-21 & 107 saves
2.97 ERA, 1.07 WHIP
268 hits, 149 BB & 498 Ks in 390 innings pitched.

We'll see if Dotel is the same pitcher following his surgery, but if he's even close he could be a major boost to a Yankee bullpen that has struggled at times.

[robertbee]

If the Yankees starters are "pretenders" and the bullpen is "awful" why does New York have a better team ERA than Boston? Do you think Boston has a better pitching staff?

I do. Schilling and Beckett are 2 good front starters. The reason why the Sox era is a few bad games by the likes of Clement, bad game by Beckett, the era will come down. Team defense helps as well. The reason why the Sox are in 1St place is due to defense. Lowell, Lorretta, Gonzo and Yuk have been stellar. Do you really feel comfortable with The Big Mess, Moose (Mr Elbow Woe) Jaret Wrong and Chien and Chacon? Please they will not keep you in the hunt. Schilling is a work horse. Beckett needs some fine tuning but is having a pretty good year minus a couple of hiccups. And Lester looks promising which will booster the front end of the rotation. Clement has looked poor but does have good stuff. He needs to toughn up. Paulie gets a start today at 5 so its interesting to see what he has after a good start in NY.
I do like our staff we have options and I am sure moves will be made after the break after all Boston is a rest stop not a destination a rest stop before a world championship which is our destiny. Mark don't get fooled by stats. Stats are over rated. Team chemistry and heart out weight stats. Thats a fact.

[Arodjr]

^^^ That's funny, Manny has NO heart.

[Mark Weber]

Mark don't get fooled by stats. Stats are over rated. Team chemistry and heart out weight stats. Thats a fact.

New York has lost Gary Sheffield and Hideki Matsui already this year and hasn't seen an inning yet from Carl Pavano. Shawn Chacon, Bubba Crosby, Aaron Small and Tanyon Sturtze have spent time on the DL, while Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Jason Giambi and Johnny Damon have all missed time due to smaller injuries.

Before you launch the obligatory "I guess you shouldn't overpay aging players" response, answer me this - with the train wreck of injuries that has hit the Yankees so far this season, how do you think they've stayed neck and neck with the Red Sox? Is it stats or heart?

The world championship is Boston's "destiny?" Every 86 years or what? Halley's comet comes around more often...

http://www.ayton.id.au/gary/Science/Astronomy/Gary/HalleysComet_1986_Gary.jpg

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

Is it because they have four guys you can build a line-up around? Boo-frickin-hoo Mark. Oh Sheffield and Matsui are hurt, I guess that only leaves the two guys who've combined to win 3 MVPs over the last 6 years in Giambi and A-Rod. Pity the Yankees...

[Vinnie4]

.


humiiliation. its a game man. humiliation would be the post by Mavrik.



What a flip flop artist. When the Sox lose, it is just a game, but when they win they save a nation.:rolleyes: And before you say anything about 86 years between titles, or "Yankee oppresion", remember, it is just a game.

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

Beckett getting shelled again...

Too bad the Jays can never take advantage...:(

[Arodjr]

Beckett getting shelled again...

Surprise surprise, he probably has a blister on his finger or something. :rolleyes:

[Mark Weber]

Do you really feel comfortable with The Big Mess, Moose (Mr Elbow Woe) Jaret Wrong and Chien and Chacon? Please they will not keep you in the hunt. Schilling is a work horse. Beckett needs some fine tuning but is having a pretty good year minus a couple of hiccups.

Mr. Elbow Woe has ten seasons with 200 innings pitched compared to Beckett who has never thrown 200 innings in a season. I know those are just stats, please don't let them get in the way of any intangible "clutch" or "heart" arguments...

I can turn it around too if you want to play on the same level: Curt $chilling, Josh "^&*% you" Bliskett, Matt "Bullseye" Clement, and David "not so" Wells plus Jon "mo" Lester or whatever Pawtucket scrub you believe is the future of the Sox this week. Chris Berman has kept a job for 20 years doing that garbage - it's not terribly challenging.

[robertbee]

Chris Berman has kept a job for 20 years doing that garbage - it's not terribly challenging.
Mark Weber


As proven by you champ. Bravo. Bravo.

Mr. Elbow Woe has ten seasons with 200 innings pitched compared to Beckett who has never thrown 200 innings in a season

Beckett is onlky 25 years old. He has 10 years to go until he reaches Mooses age. I think. He has already won a World Series in dramatic fashion and pitched a complete game on 3 days rest. He brought the Marlins something Moose has never done. Moose was brought to the Yankees to win a world series championship. Maybe he can take all those AL East titles and melt them down and make a World Championship Trophy. Moose has never won a Cy Young or 20 games for that matter. An over rated pitcher on a team of all stars. Put him on the Royals and he wins 10 games. Injuries and stanima has always been his down fall. Time is running out for Mr Elbow WOES.

The Yankees were suppose the have the greatest lineup since Murders Row. Suppose to challange them. Well the only thing they are challaging are the lollipop guild. When you sign aging player expect injurt. No excuse.



What a flip flop artist. When the Sox lose, it is just a game, but when they win they save a nation
Vinnie4


Vincent dear, that was a World Series after 86 years. I think that merits more than a game. Surprise you didnt start out saying. Its funny when....I like when... You are starting to learm my friend. Good on ya mate. You have potential.


New York has lost Gary Sheffield and Hideki Matsui already this year and hasn't seen an inning yet from Carl Pavano

Carl who? I think he sounds familar. We shipped his ass to Montreal for this guy named Pedro. Who brought a World Series championship to Boston on his "rest over" before going to the Mets. Not a bad trade. And then I think he ended up in Florida only to sign with NY because Theo played the Yankees thinking the Sox wanted him. Like COntrea's and Arod... NY bite again and ended up with 2 years of Pavano. NIce job Theo. Pavano has been wonderful for Boston. Brilliiant!


how do you think they've stayed neck and neck with the Red Sox? Is it stats or heart?


BLUE JAYS

Haleys comet.. Thanks for the pretty picture. I will add it to my collection
http://www.mofosports.net/nyi/images/moon.gif

Twenty O Four Twenty O Four Twenty O four ;)

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

Wow, Ortiz is something else...

[robertbee]

David Ortiz better kow as Big Papi comes to the plate with is team down by 2 runs. 2 strikes and 2 outs. 2 o n. HOME RUN Big Papi does it agains. Not bad for a half a player and I would file that under MVP.
ps to Yankee fans....That is worth a curtian call. Not those foolish ones you gave to Giambi and Bern Bern bern in the 2nd inning. That is WEAK!

[fenwayp]

BIG PAPI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D :D :eek:
AWESOME !!!!!

[robertbee]

What a day its turning out to be. Captn Clutch Derek Jeter once agian ends the game not striking out this time but a feeble ground out. THE YANKEES LOSE THE YANKEES LOSE.

Time to pull away. Thank you A's a sweep in the bronx. SWEET! Are the Jays in 2nd place now?

[fenwayp]

Bottom 9th: NY Yankees
- H. Street relieved K. Calero
- M. Cairo flied out to right
- J. Damon lined out to deep left
- D. Jeter grounded out to second

0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors
Oakland 6, NY Yankees 5

[fenwayp]

THE
YANKEES
LOSE !!!

THE
YANKEES
LOSE !!!

:D

[BlakChamber]

What a day its turning out to be. Captn Clutch Derek Jeter once agian ends the game not striking out this time but a feeble ground out. THE YANKEES LOSE THE YANKEES LOSE.

Time to pull away. Thank you A's a sweep in the bronx. SWEET! Are the Jays in 2nd place now?
The Jays are down 5 in the bottom of the 8th to the Tigers.

Whatever happened to, 'its just a game?' ;)

[fenwayp]

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/06/11/1150055858_1383.jpg
With two outs in the ninth inning and a two-strike count, David Ortiz connected for a three-run home run and a 5-4 Boston win.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/06/11/1150056690_0199.jpg

Ortiz was greeted at home plate by his teammates after his home run gave the Red Sox the win.

[fenwayp]

Yankees are now on a 4-game losing skid...

[fenwayp]

Gee, I wonder where all the Yankee fans (like Vinnie :D ) are now...aren't they the ones who think you should jump right on the trash talking thread as soon as your team loses ?

:D :D

[BlakChamber]

I do like the red, Red Sox jerseys. Not as nice as the white, but they're still pretty cool.

[fenwayp]

I love my RED SOX 3-PACK even more now :)

[robertbee]

Whatever happened to, 'its just a game?' ;)
BlakChamber



Just a game indeed. A little jubilant after Papi's game winner. Baseball has a way of making you humble. Seeing the A's sweep the Yankees also just makes a a good day of baseball. Down 1-0 now to the Rangers. With the big guns on the bench. Win or lose the 2nd game its been a good weekend.