OFFICIAL Yankees vs. Red Sox trash talking thread

[fenwayp]

Timlin has become Keith Foulke...HE SUCKS !

[Arodjr]

Was that Arod, with a clutch hit?? :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Tanner2126]

MVP!!!! MVP!!!! JETER FOR MVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bronx Bombers]

Thats why Cano's getting a fig...

[fenwayp]

Game is FAR from over...

[Bronx Bombers]

MVP!!!! MVP!!!! JETER FOR MVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If Sox dont make it he just might get it.

[Tanner2126]

Game is FAR from over...

so true!

[fenwayp]

If I performed like this at my job, I would get fired:

- M. Timlin relieved C. Hansen
- M. Cabrera singled to right, J. Giambi scored, B. Williams to third, J. Posada to second
- J. Damon flied out to left
- D. Jeter doubled to deep right, J. Posada, B. Williams and M. Cabrera scored
- B. Abreu intentionally walked
- A. Rodriguez doubled to left, D. Jeter scored, B. Abreu to third
- R. Cano singled to right center, A. Rodriguez and B. Abreu scored

[Arodjr]

Right on brother!! :D Thats why Cano's getting a fig...

[Bronx Bombers]

Game is FAR from over...

I like Farnsworth and Rivera way more than any 2 guys in your bullpen.

[BostonFan]

oh hell, I had to take a dump with 2 strikes to Jeter, couldn't hold it any longer, Sox were winning 10-8, I come back and it's 14-10?!?! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[fenwayp]

Farnsworth also SUCKS...

[Bronx Bombers]

Farnsworth also SUCKS...


We'll see and hes better than anyone beside paplewhatever in your bullpen.

[Arodjr]

ManRam is on tonight. 5 for 5.

[GoNiners]

I think its safe to say this rivalry will take the lives of alot of people in this thread :-P. I think we have all aged well beyond our years because if it.

[GoNiners]

ManRam is on tonight. 5 for 5.

he is a better all around player then Ortiz and idiots are calling for Ortiz for MVP.

[Bronx Bombers]

he is a better all around player then Ortiz and idiots are calling for Ortiz for MVP.


Really?? When i head MVP i heard Jeter...

[GoNiners]

Really?? When i head MVP i heard Jeter...

I mean red sox fans ;)

[Bronx Bombers]

I mean red sox fans ;)


I know

[Bronx Bombers]

The only way to get our pitchers out is to hit them litterally

[Bronx Bombers]

Im glad it didnt get him on knee or ankle it hit some meat

[fenwayp]

I'll pay any Yankee $1 to hit a line drive off of Timlin's kneecap...

[GoNiners]

I know

I keep hearing "Yapyapyap papi MVP yapyapyap"

[GoNiners]

I'll pay any Yankee $1 to hit a line drive off of Timlin's kneecap...

He is better for us healthy.

[Bronx Bombers]

I didnt actually hear Jeter:rolleyes: and Manny is 4-5

[GoNiners]

so anyone else gotta wake up early but doesnt have the sense to go to bed because they are enthralled in this game?

[Bronx Bombers]

You prob would have been better off not hitting Professor

[fenwayp]

Is it my imagination, or did Keith Foulke just retire a batter ?

[Arodjr]

Sorry, listening to the game on MLB.com, and they said he was 5 for 5. He is 4 for 5.I didnt actually hear Jeter:rolleyes: and Manny is 4-5

[Bronx Bombers]

:eek: then gives up a double....

[fenwayp]

Posada double...that's more like the Foulke I know...

[Bronx Bombers]

Im really hoping for a pitching duel tommorow like a 2-1 or 1-0 win

[SharpyDave]

Im really hoping for a pitching duel tommorow like a 2-1 or 1-0 winYou mean today's later game?

[GoNiners]

Posada double...that's more like the Foulke I know...

Foulke retires a batter, Posada doubles, what's next? Giambi hitting it the other way?

[Bronx Bombers]

You mean today's later game?


right, only like 10 more mis till longest 9 inning game in history

[Bronx Bombers]

Foulke retires a batter, Posada doubles, what's next? Giambi hitting it the other way?


A-rRod witha clutch hit:eek:

[GoNiners]

A-rRod witha clutch hit:eek:

When a team has Jeter and Bernie how much more clutch do you need :-P

Also you forgot "Patriots game where fans dont make an anti-yankees chant"

[Bronx Bombers]

Come on Scotty

[Bronx Bombers]

5...

[Bronx Bombers]

NEW RECORD!!

[Bronx Bombers]

4...

[Bronx Bombers]

3...nice one Giambi:)

[Bronx Bombers]

NEW RECORD!!! & 1800

[Arodjr]

Hmmmm, red sux fans nowhere to be found!! :D

[Bronx Bombers]

So much for 10 o'clock news

[Bronx Bombers]

good news so far on Professor

[GoNiners]

Its soooo late, Im sooooo tired my head feels heavy

[Bronx Bombers]

2...

[Bronx Bombers]

I hate Shrek so much

[Bronx Bombers]

YANKEES WIN!!!

[Bronx Bombers]

Cant wait for the 1:30 AM news

[Arodjr]

Yankees sweep the double header. Awesome.

[GoNiners]

btw Im calling it now Johnson vs Beckett is another big hitters game and Mussina vs Schilling is a duel.

[Mark Weber]

So Foulke throws his career away pitching nearly every night in the postseason to deliver Boston's first World Title in 86 years, and now the fans hate him?

[Bronx Bombers]

There gonna be soo tired later that ill be surprised if theres 10 hits combined.

[Bronx Bombers]

So Foulke throws his career away pitching nearly every night in the postseason to deliver Boston's first World Title in 86 years, and now the fans hate him?


He said he dosent wanna pitch there anymore and he wants out.

[lionking]

go Yankees

[spyxops]

go Yankees damn right man :Dhttp://board.spawn.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Rich Zufelt]

let me adjust my rear view mirror !! The image got a bit smaller tonight !!!

[Hardcore Legend]

Yankee fans do realize that if they get swept over the next 3 games, it'll be a insignificant 1/2 game lead...correct?

[fenwayp]

Yankee fans do realize that if they get swept over the next 3 games, it'll be a insignificant 1/2 game lead...correct?

Precisely...not saying it's gonna happen, but it is still mid-August...

Also, let it be noted (especially by Toight :) ) that I was in here full steam last night through Timlin's misadventures...why not rag on the Yankee fans that came out of the woodwork after the Yankee sweep last night who have rarely (or never) posted.

Timlin did me in last night. He has simply lost his ability to get batters out. VERY frustrating. At least Big Papi gave Rivera a little reminder of how much he OWNS him :D It was the only saving grace, as pathetic as it may be :D

[ToightLikeATiger]

So Foulke throws his career away pitching nearly every night in the postseason to deliver Boston's first World Title in 86 years, and now the fans hate him?

nope... only idiot bandwagoners like fenway would hate Foulke.

i am a huge fan of the guy. you have to be. He should have been World Series mvp.

i continue to hope he comes back to form because we all have seen what he can do. if he never gets another save or pitches well again you still cant hate the guy because what he did for the team.

[fenwayp]

Toight once again resorts to namecalling.

I like Foulke, he just can't get guys out anymore.

[Bronx Bombers]

nope... only idiot bandwagoners like fenway would hate Foulke.

i am a huge fan of the guy. you have to be. He should have been World Series mvp.

i continue to hope he comes back to form because we all have seen what he can do. if he never gets another save or pitches well again you still cant hate the guy because what he did for the team.


He hates Boston so Boston hates him.

[Mark Weber]

Yankee fans do realize that if they get swept over the next 3 games, it'll be a insignificant 1/2 game lead...correct?

Here's the pre-spin for ya HL - If NY drops the next 3 games, they'll have played 15 games in 14 days (with twelve of them against teams with winning records) while still managing to wrest control of their division from the Red Sox, whogot SWEPT at Kansas City in the same timeframe. Boston's lost eight of their last twelve games.

[SharpyDave]

Yankee fans do realize that if they get swept over the next 3 games, it'll be a insignificant 1/2 game lead...correct?You do realize if the Yankees sweep the next 3 games most Red Sox fans will never post in this thread again? Either way, winning 2 games is not too bad.

[SharpyDave]

btw Im calling it now Johnson vs Beckett is another big hitters game and Mussina vs Schilling is a duel.I predict either Johnson or Beckett will be lights out...problem is I don't know which one will be which. :o

[ComradeFlyer]

Hmmmm, red sux fans nowhere to be found!! :D


on on vacation for a long weekend, get off my back.

yanks showed some good stuff last night, i'm always impressed when a team comes back from being down, especially against their arch rival.

we'll see how the rest of the weekend pans out.

and nothing foulke can ever do will make me hate him, you're dead right, he pitched away his career helping the sox win the world series and for that i will always love the guy.

back to vacation.

oh and bronx bombers, dude get offline for a minute, there is a whole big wide world out there.

[Yukoner]

Yikes. How many times can they run Mike Timlin out there? The guy is d-u-n.

[Mark Weber]

GMs league-wide are watching Timlin and saying "Maybe letting pitchers throw in the World Baseball Classic isn't such a good idea..."

[Tanner2126]

well this game is on mute!! I CANT STAND THESE ANNOUCNERS ON FOX@!?@?e?!e#@#?$e?#@$!$$!

[Hardcore Legend]

Joshie Beckett is horrible. He is worse than Jason Marquis and that is saying something.

[Yukoner]

GMs league-wide are watching Timlin and saying "Maybe letting pitchers throw in the World Baseball Classic isn't such a good idea..."

J.P. Ricciardi concurs, thanks to Gustavo Chacin getting NO work during spring training and the WBC. Hey, who needs a third starter... certainly not the Jays.

[GoNiners]

I heard the best news ever just now. Sydney Ponson getting designated for assignment :-D.

[GoNiners]

GAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 10-5 Yankees

[OKCBear]

It's called a complete lack of ptching. Man this just sucks. Theo better have something up his sleeve because this is going to be a long end to the season if they keep pitching like this.

[Tanner2126]

Man, that Cano guy is sooo over-rated! ;)

[chucknorris666]

I dont know what is worse the Sox pitching or Tim McCarver's commentary. Arroyo come back!

[Bronx Bombers]

If anybody watched this series Cano's showing why hes getting a sp.

[SharpyDave]

Red Sox fans, look on the bright side, it didn't take you over 4 1/2 hours to lose this one.

[GPWYANKEE]

Man am i glad Ponson is toast-He was horrible.Its a shame to because hes got a decent arm just cant put it all together.

[Reagz]

Great win again for the Yankees. Hopefully the Moose will keep the train rollin tomorrow!

Go Yankees!

[Tanner2126]

Red Sox fans, look on the bright side, it didn't take you over 4 1/2 hours to lose this one.

LMFAO!!!!!

[Bronx Bombers]

Wheres Toight??

[Mark Weber]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060819/capt.438178c0bf564c14a834590f3a139098.yankees_red_sox_baseball_mawt109.jpg

Man, Posada's bases-loaded triple was lucky to bounce off the wall as deeply imbedded as it was...

[Thoughtful]

Nine walks in 5 2/3 innings for Beckett. That's pretty embarrassing. The guy has a lot of talent but just doesn't seem to have what it takes mentally to be a real winner. I feel stupid saying that because of what he did in the 2003 World Series, but that seven game series represents the only instance in his career in which he has ever played to his potential.

I would like to see the Red Sox be successful this year, but it's pretty clear now that the Yankees are better. What other conclusion can you draw after the first three games of this series? This series has been a hideously embarrassing massacre so far.

[Mark Weber]

New York's really put it together this weekend, but I think one of the subplots is that we're seeing how critically important Jason Varitek and Tim Wakefield are to Boston. They are sorely missed.

[Bronx Bombers]

I bet there really regreting letting Damon go now.

[spyxops]

I bet there really regreting letting Damon go now. lol i bet :D but oh well

[Thur34]

Damon, AND Arroyo, AND Martinez (albeit 2 years ago).

[fenwayp]

I guess the season is over, so the Red Sox should just forfeit the remainder of their schedule and we can just hand the Yankees the division. No need to play anymore games...

[fenwayp]

Congrats to the Yankees and their fans. They have humiliated the Red Sox the 1st 3 games of this series. No question about it.

[Lord_Stanley_#89]

All I'll say is::D

[Lord_Stanley_#89]

New York's really put it together this weekend, but I think one of the subplots is that we're seeing how critically important Jason Varitek and Tim Wakefield are to Boston. They are sorely missed.
And the fact that Theo did nothing at the tread deadline and is trying to patch up the bleeding with the waiver wire - Javy - not a solution. Hinske might be a bright spot if he keeps up what he did yesterday albeit in a losing effort.

[eM249ine]

Wheres Toight??


stuck in his worm hole.. :D :D

[Tanner2126]

The season is still farrrrrr from over

[fenwayp]

Wheres Toight??

Toight is such a fairweather fan...we may never hear from him again...

[Bronx Bombers]

Toight is such a fairweather fan...we may never hear from him again...


So your saying Red Sox are done? I actually agree with you on that.

[SharpyDave]

The season is still farrrrrr from overYou are right, every team goes through good and bad streaks. Just have to ride the tide and hope your team keeps going.

[Bronx Bombers]

You are right, every team goes through good and bad streaks. Just have to ride the tide and hope your team keeps going.


One thing different form Yanks and Sox is that when Yankees got hit by injury bug they kept winning and didnt fall apart like Boston.

[eM249ine]

If anybody watched this series Cano's showing why hes getting a sp.


I was saying the same thing re-capping this series.. :D :D

[TastySweetNutz]

As much as this feels great as a Yanks fan, the season is far from over. 4 1/2 games is nice but nowhere near comfortable. The great thing about baseball is that it's a season of streaks. But I will say that this isn't even full strength yet. No Sheff and Matsui and they're still putting these numbers up?? What's it going to look like when they come back. I'm hoping that Sheff doesn't return and we can keep Melky in. The kid is solid!

Here's hoping they can take the next one with the Moose!

[SharpyDave]

Originally Posted by fenwayp
Toight is such a fairweather fan...we may never hear from him again...

I respect Toight a lot more than most Sox fans, he lives and dies Red Sox and knows a lot more than most fans...sure he's a homer but aren't we all. At least he roots for a team, better than some guys who's team sucks so they just live to hate the Yankees. Also, of strange that another Red Sox fan would turn on his own. (unless we are talking about BigDog...;) )

[SharpyDave]

One thing different form Yanks and Sox is that when Yankees got hit by injury bug they kept winning and didnt fall apart like Boston.The Sox could not put the nail in the coffin, let's hope Yanks can win at least one more game and at least put breathing room in.

[TastySweetNutz]

One thing different form Yanks and Sox is that when Yankees got hit by injury bug they kept winning and didnt fall apart like Boston.
That is a great point. I'd chalk that up partly to Torre being the great manager that he is.

[TastySweetNutz]

Originally Posted by fenwayp
Toight is such a fairweather fan...we may never hear from him again...

I respect Toight a lot more than most Sox fans, he lives and dies Red Sox and knows a lot more than most fans...sure he's a homer but aren't we all. Kind of strange that another Red Sox fan would turn on his own. (unless we are talking about BigDog...;) )
Yeah Toight is a die hard Sox fan, but I guarantee if the Sox had taken the first 3 games we'd have 8 consecutive pages of Toight's whitty and intelligent comments of how great the Sox are and how the Yanks are overpaid garbagemen.

[Bronx Bombers]

The 3rd place team in AL central could lead AL West, NL West, Central and Wild Card.

[orionquest]

New York's really put it together this weekend, but I think one of the subplots is that we're seeing how critically important Jason Varitek and Tim Wakefield are to Boston. They are sorely missed.

Mark, I coudn't agree more. Wake, sure, but I've never witnessed a pitching staff performance so reliant on a catcher before. The former "young guns" of Lester, Delcarmen and Hansen have completely fallen apart in Varitek's absence, and even Papelbon has shown some chinks in his armor without Tek.

As a Sox fan, what can I possible say after the last three games. Shell shocked. When the Sox put up 11 runs against the Yankees at Fenway and lose? That's just ridiculous. The Yankees deserve so much credit.

The part that burns the most? Johnny Damon. He's been outstanding at the plate.

The best we Sox fans can hope for at this point is to have Schill and Boomer come up big and take the last two. I figured on a 3-2 split. I just didn't figure the three would come like that. Ouch!

And, Yanks fans... take a deep breath. If the situation were reversed, most of you (not all) would stay away from this thread for a few days, too.

As I said before, when these teams play, crazy %$#@ happens. It's never the same series twice, is it?

[Cardinal]

Sox GM will pay off Yank's GM to let them take the last two games. Cause that's how the Red Sox roll.

[Mark Weber]

Papelbon is well-rested for the last two games of the series. So you got that going for you. :)

[Rich Zufelt]

Now you see why Lopez was not wanted in Atlanta. No juice for Javy any more. If he can't hit he's useless. His defense is about a good as A Rods !

[EastcoastSean]

It's NOT over ..............BUt it doesn't look very good.

[ToightLikeATiger]

Yeah Toight is a die hard Sox fan, but I guarantee if the Sox had taken the first 3 games we'd have 8 consecutive pages of Toight's whitty and intelligent comments of how great the Sox are and how the Yanks are overpaid garbagemen.

perhaps you should read because im one of the only ones here not trash talking. i dont believe in it. i like baseball discussion not the other stuff.

and if you also read i said the redsox would be lucky to get 1 because of the pitching going. i didnt expect them to win friday with johnson and lester and i had no clue about Beckett.

the next 2 games are big. if the Sox can win both then they are 2 1/2 out with 6 games left vs NY and plenty other games. definetly not out of it yet. Redsox need to win last 2 though.

you might be thinking of fenway or robertbee who come on here after every win and gloat.

[ToightLikeATiger]

btw it was great to see Peter Gammons at the game yesterday. Peter Gammons is a hero of mine and id like one day know half the stuff he knows about baseball. He is one of the reasons i decided to live out a dream instead of going in a safer direction.

Peter Gammons is not only a great baseball guy but a great human being as well. I hope he fully recovers and can see him on baseball tonight soon

[Bronx Bombers]

I hope Yankees saved some runs for Shilling, only need 23 for 3 wins but scored 39. And if Yankees keep up this trend they should score 11 or 15 runs tonight(12,14,13).

[madden821]

I hate NY and Boston but its nice to see the smugg Red Sox get their beat down. They win one WS in 90 years and they think their the best thing since sliced bread.

[NYHoustonman]

I've hated the whole "we've dealt with injuries well all season" bs the Yankees put out for quite a while now. Essentially, they lost Matsui and Sheffield (along with Pavano, but that was before the season began). The Yankees still have a POWERFUL lineup without them (as well they should, they've put a good deal of money into it), and the emergence of Melky and acquisition of Abreu have helped a good deal.

The Red Sox, on the other hand, have been hit with injuries where they couldn't afford them and at bad times. Theo dealt Arroyo for Pena because (I would assume) at the time, the Sox had 5 good starters in place - Schiling, Beckett, Clement, Wells, and Wakefield. 3 of those 5 have ended up spending significant time on the DL, leaving the Sox rotation in shambles for much of the year (Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder just aren't cutting it, and Lester isn't ready for the big leagues yet). To me, that has been the major problem with the Sox all year. We all know that Varitek was injured, and Nixon is out for now as well - and his injury couldn't have come at a worse time, right after the trade deadline, with Bobby Abreu out of the Red Sox' sights. As has been said many times, if Nixon had been injured earlier Abreu would likely be in Boston right now.

Either way, I can't see either team winning a World Series this year, but to mock the Red Sox because they haven't dealt with these injuries as 'well' as the Yankees have is pretty absurd.

Hopefully Schilling gives the Sox a boost tonight...

[Bronx Bombers]

I think Yankees have best chance to get to WS for AL. They've beat down on Tigers and White Sox this year and Oakland isnt really a threat. And Boston wont even be in it this year. And if its another Subway Series i have to give Yankees upperhand because they have the experiense not saying their old but they've been on big stadge before.

[SkoalStangGT]

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/battle-in-fenway.jpg

[mike99420]

I think Yankees have best chance to get to WS for AL. They've beat down on Tigers and White Sox this year and Oakland isnt really a threat. And Boston wont even be in it this year. And if its another Subway Series i have to give Yankees upperhand because they have the experiense not saying their old but they've been on big stadge before.

dude you have to stop discounting the redsox. ive pretty much stayed out of this thread because everything has been said but, we dont have a 12 game lead. plus we can leave fenway with as little as 2 1/2 lead. they have been great the last 3 days but calm down. we still have a 4 game series in the bronx in september in which they can make up alot of ground. especially if the yanks arent that hot at that point. and ws talk, your going to jinx it. we havent been to the ws for a while now, and we were arguably the lock the last few years. for a long time around here the yankees fans have waited until the yanks actually locked things up to talk $h!t, lets get back to that.

[Bronx Bombers]

dude you have to stop discounting the redsox. ive pretty much stayed out of this thread because everything has been said but, we dont have a 12 game lead. plus we can leave fenway with as little as 2 1/2 lead. they have been great the last 3 days but calm down. we still have a 4 game series in the bronx in september in which they can make up alot of ground. especially if the yanks arent that hot at that point. and ws talk, your going to jinx it. we havent been to the ws for a while now, and we were arguably the lock the last few years. for a long time around here the yankees fans have waited until the yanks actually locked things up to talk $h!t, lets get back to that.


Its Trash Talking and i can say whatever i want thats the point and 2 years isnt a while. And Red Sox are done 4.5 back on East and 4 in Wild Card.

[Mark Weber]

New York did go through a dry spell from their farm system from 98-03 or so, when Alfonso Soriano was the only impact rookie to make their roster, but since then Chien-Ming Wang, Robinson Cano and Mely Cabrera have all come up and been solid contributors. If the Yankees farm system is dry right now it's only because they've called up their three studs over the last two seasons.

Still, there are prospects growing down on the farm, most notably:

26-year-old RP Jose Veras (AAA - Columbus Clippers)
20-year-old SP Phillip Hughes (AA - Trenton Thunder)
22-year-old SP Tyler Clippard (AA - Trenton Thunder)
22-year-old RP J.B. Cox (AA - Trenton Thunder)
21-year-old SP George Kontos (A - Staten Island)
18-year-old OF Jose Tabata (A - Charleston)

Not to mention 6'3, 230 pound 16-year-old Venezuelan catching prodigy Jesus Montero, who New York outbid Boston for. You know as well as I do that minor league numbers rarely translate to big league talent, but I don't think it's accurate to describe New York's farm system as "dry."

Tyler Clippard made history on Thursday, tossing the first no-hitter in team history as the Trenton Thunder blanked the Harrisburg Senators, 9-0, at Commerce Bank Park. Clippard (10-10) struck out nine and walked four on the way to his seventh straight win.
"Surreal, it didn't settle in at first" were the 21-year-old right-hander's thoughts immediately after Richard Lane took a called third strike to end the game. "It is unbelievable, an unforgettable night, something I will always remember.


"You always kind of know you have something special going on, but you don't think it will come to fruition until the later innings. I really started to feel like it may happen when there were two outs in the eighth."


Clippard got some stellar defense to protect the first no-hitter in Trenton's 13-year history. With one out in the seventh inning, first baseman Randy Ruiz made a diving stop of Josh Whitesell's grounder and flipped to Clippard covering first.
The second defensive gem came two innings later, when center fielder Brett Gardner made a sliding catch on Kory Casto's deep fly ball.


Long before Gardner's catch, Clippard thought he had surrendered a homer to Casto in the first. But the ball died on the warning track and was caught. The Florida native said balls were not carrying all night, so he wasn't sure about Casto's blast in the ninth.
"I said, 'Oh, gosh, but I turned and saw (Gardner) had a great jump and was going to track it down, and I knew I may get (the no-hitter)."


Clippard took it from there as he retired Major League veteran Jose Vidro on a grounder to third and completed the gem by getting Lane to look at strike three. On April 11, Lane broke up the no-hit bid of Trenton's Steven White with one out in the eighth inning.
The 6-foot-4 righty has not lost since June 29 and has allowed 14 runs over his last 63 innings with 72 strikeout. He has evened his record after starting the season 2-9.
"I did make some changes to make my delivery more consistent and I also learned to slow the game down and throw my off-speed pitches for strikes, especially with runners on base and then execute those things during the game, which is what I did tonight," Clippard said of his turnaround.


The nine strikeouts against Harrisburg raised Clippard's season total to an Eastern League-leading 155. He needs 13 more to shatter the single-season team record.

[mike99420]

Its Trash Talking and i can say whatever i want thats the point and 2 years isnt a while. And Red Sox are done 4.5 back on East and 4 in Wild Card.
all im saying is dont discount them until they are officially done. a 4 game lead is nothing in baseball. while i think they are in fact done i can discount them when they still have manny and papi. like said if they get hot and sweep us in september its a whole new ballgame.

[Mark Weber]

I've hated the whole "we've dealt with injuries well all season" bs the Yankees put out for quite a while now. Essentially, they lost Matsui and Sheffield (along with Pavano, but that was before the season began). The Yankees still have a POWERFUL lineup without them (as well they should, they've put a good deal of money into it), and the emergence of Melky and acquisition of Abreu have helped a good deal.

The Red Sox, on the other hand, have been hit with injuries where they couldn't afford them and at bad times. Theo dealt Arroyo for Pena because (I would assume) at the time, the Sox had 5 good starters in place - Schiling, Beckett, Clement, Wells, and Wakefield. 3 of those 5 have ended up spending significant time on the DL, leaving the Sox rotation in shambles for much of the year (Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder just aren't cutting it, and Lester isn't ready for the big leagues yet). To me, that has been the major problem with the Sox all year. We all know that Varitek was injured, and Nixon is out for now as well - and his injury couldn't have come at a worse time, right after the trade deadline, with Bobby Abreu out of the Red Sox' sights. As has been said many times, if Nixon had been injured earlier Abreu would likely be in Boston right now.

Either way, I can't see either team winning a World Series this year, but to mock the Red Sox because they haven't dealt with these injuries as 'well' as the Yankees have is pretty absurd.

Hopefully Schilling gives the Sox a boost tonight...

New York also lost All-star 2B Robinson Cano for a month as well. And while New York's unrivaled payroll helped fill the void in RF by acquiring Bobby Abreu, they kept close to Boston in the standings for three months with Aaron Guiel, Kevin Thompson, Kevin Reese, Terrence Long, Bubba Crosby and Bernie Williams playing RF. Cabrera has been stellar replacing Matsui in LF as well.

Theo picked up Pena as insurance for Trot and Manny (because he certainly isn't going to get any DH at-bats with the Sox) and as Nixon's replacemnt next year. Boston has tried to counter their recent injury problems by acquiring major league talent - picking up Javy Lopez with Varitek got hurt and Eric Hinske following Nixon's injury. Even with proven major leaguers stepping in Boston hasn't been able to keep pace. At season's end, Boston's lament will be that they didn't put together a sizable lead when the Yankees' roster was limited.

[Bronx Bombers]

all im saying is dont discount them until they are officially done. a 4 game lead is nothing in baseball. while i think they are in fact done i can discount them when they still have manny and papi. like said if they get hot and sweep us in september its a whole new ballgame.


Papi and Manny dont help if they have only 1 pitcher

[NYHoustonman]

New York also lost All-star 2B Robinson Cano for a month as well. And while New York's unrivaled payroll helped fill the void in RF by acquiring Bobby Abreu, they kept close to Boston in the standings for three months with Aaron Guiel, Kevin Thompson, Kevin Reese, Terrence Long, Bubba Crosby and Bernie Williams playing RF. Cabrera has been stellar replacing Matsui in LF as well.

Theo picked up Pena as insurance for Trot and Manny (because he certainly isn't going to get any DH at-bats with the Sox) and as Nixon's replacemnt next year. Boston has tried to counter their recent injury problems by acquiring major league talent - picking up Javy Lopez with Varitek got hurt and Eric Hinske following Nixon's injury. Even with proven major leaguers stepping in Boston hasn't been able to keep pace. At season's end, Boston's lament will be that they didn't put together a sizable lead when the Yankees' roster was limited.

I understand your point, but it is a tad flawed. The Sox have been scoring runs all year and are third in the majors in runs scored (behind the Yankees, I might add, even with the injuries to Sheff and Matsui). The majority of the injuries to the Sox have happened to pitchers; with the lack of pitching available (at least at a decent price), their pitching has suffered all season, and they're 25th in the majors in ERA. The majority of the injuries to the Yankees have happened to position players, and yet the Yankees have still scored the second most runs in the majors.

My point is, picking up major league-ready talent like Hinske and Lopez has done little to help the Red Sox where they needed it, whereas with the Yankees you have so many other offensive threats in that lineup that the injuries didn't have much of an effect. I suppose that, had Matsui and Sheffield remained healthy all year, the Yanks would be up more than 4.5 games, but you can't fault the Red Sox for not pulling away from the Yankees earlier in the season. They played .600 ball up until this month (they are 6-12 this month), and you can't ask much more than that out of a team. Put it this way; you're basically saying it's the Red Sox fault they didn't play .650 ball all year rather than a 'mere' .600. That's ludicrous.

As a side note, I hope the Red Sox do make the playoffs, but at this point it's not even so that they win another World Series; I don't think that's happening. Rather, I would love to be able to prove to half of you how utterly stupid it is to proclaim victory in mid-August at a time like this. The Red Sox are struggling, it was bound to happen at some point, but there is no reason they can't turn it around.

[ToightLikeATiger]

you make good points NYHoustonman. its a lot easier to fill in for injuries when you can spend 100 million dollars more then anyone else.

of course Yankees fans will try to change the subject by saying "redsox have 2nd highest payroll" but it doesnt change the truth. 100 million dollars is a lot of money. its 4 Arod's.

it also helps NY they havent lost Mussina. Id say him being out would be comparable to Wakefield. As bad as Clement was this year (due to his injury) he would still be a lot better then Johnson,Snyder or Lester as the 5th starter. Plus David Wells was out most of the year. He is showing now he is still valuable but it hurt not having him.

Redsox need to keep it close until Wakefield and Varitek get back. back to back wins vs NY and they are they will be doing that. 6 more games head to head and plenty of games vs others.

Redsox wont go down quietly like some Yankees fans think.

i also think its great that the Redsox ownership doesnt have the "must win it all now" attitude. They didnt trade away all their young talent. Winning it all this year and then having to rebuild in a year or 2 doesnt help the franchise. Being competitive and rebuilding at same time is the way to go.

id much rather not win this year and keep the young players then win it all this year and suck for a couple years after. i still think they can win this year.... just gonna need the guys we lost back.

If the Redsox are 2 or 3gb when Vtek and Wakefield get back (maybe even Clement and Nixon) i think they can get the job done. Also the Redsox have a home series vs the Whitesox as well. So the wildcard isnt out of the picture either

[LI-Mike]

So your saying Red Sox are done? I actually agree with you on that.


Damn you are a damn fool..if you think this then you are lost..

Also look at my Avatar..Think about it does it talk about the yankees or possibly simeone else around here...:rolleyes:

[Bronx Bombers]

you make good points NYHoustonman. its a lot easier to fill in for injuries when you can spend 100 million dollars more then anyone else.

of course Yankees fans will try to change the subject by saying "redsox have 2nd highest payroll" but it doesnt change the truth. 100 million dollars is a lot of money. its 4 Arod's.

it also helps NY they havent lost Mussina. Id say him being out would be comparable to Wakefield. As bad as Clement was this year (due to his injury) he would still be a lot better then Johnson,Snyder or Lester as the 5th starter. Plus David Wells was out most of the year. He is showing now he is still valuable but it hurt not having him.

Redsox need to keep it close until Wakefield and Varitek get back. back to back wins vs NY and they are they will be doing that. 6 more games head to head and plenty of games vs others.

Redsox wont go down quietly like some Yankees fans think.

i also think its great that the Redsox ownership doesnt have the "must win it all now" attitude. They didnt trade away all their young talent. Winning it all this year and then having to rebuild in a year or 2 doesnt help the franchise. Being competitive and rebuilding at same time is the way to go.

id much rather not win this year and keep the young players then win it all this year and suck for a couple years after. i still think they can win this year.... just gonna need the guys we lost back.

If the Redsox are 2 or 3gb when Vtek and Wakefield get back (maybe even Clement and Nixon) i think they can get the job done. Also the Redsox have a home series vs the Whitesox as well. So the wildcard isnt out of the picture either


Money has nothing to do with Cano, Cabrera, Wang and Bernie all stepping up to keep them winning

[Bronx Bombers]

Damn you are a damn fool..if you think this then you are lost..

Also look at my Avatar..Think about it does it talk about the yankees or possibly simeone else around here...:rolleyes:


You take things so literally:rolleyes:

[Bronx Bombers]

Red Sox fans a soo stupid they go crazy over like a pop up to lead off game.:rolleyes:

[NYHoustonman]

Money has nothing to do with Cano, Cabrera, Wang and Bernie all stepping up to keep them winning

It has a lot to do with why they're still second in the AL in runs scored without Sheffield and Matsui for most of the year; alot more than Cano, Cabrera, or Bernie.

[TastySweetNutz]

I won't count the Red Sox out yet. As I said earlier it's only a 4.5 game lead and that can be made up in a one week span. Baseball is a streaky sport and the Yanks could hit one of those. So I suggest Yankees fans just be happy with what has occurred but don't let it go to our heads. Remember what happened in the ALCS. 3-0 lead and we were all cheering and claiming the Red Sox are done...one week later...eliminated from the playoffs.
But the Red Sox can only blame management for this due to the lack of action at the trading deadline. If only they did something with their prospects and put them to good use by bringing players in.

[Bronx Bombers]

Anyone hear what they were saying abiut Damon before game? He said his best career move was leaving Boston

[Tanner2126]

i hate rain delays

[Tanner2126]

http://image.weather.com/looper/archive/us_bos_closeradar_plus_usen/4L.jpg?1156121951593

Looks like the heavy rain is heading to boston.

[Bronx Bombers]

I hope it last for like 2 hours so Schilling is out. But we were about to open up on him with his 41 pitchs in 2 innings.

[NYHoustonman]

I hope it last for like 2 hours so Schilling is out. But we were about to open up on him with his 41 pitchs in 2 innings.

Looking at the radar, there's no way it's lasting that long.

And that's a mighty strong comment to make about Schilling, when he's throwing in the upper 90's and has pretty much dominated the Yanks through 2. We'll see what happens, but I SINCERELY doubt he was going to be lit up.

[Tanner2126]

The tarp is coming off!!!!! GAMEEEE ONNNNN!!!!

[Bronx Bombers]

Looking at the radar, there's no way it's lasting that long.

And that's a mighty strong comment to make about Schilling, when he's throwing in the upper 90's and has pretty much dominated the Yanks through 2. We'll see what happens, but I SINCERELY doubt he was going to be lit up.


41 pitches in 2 innings is alot compared to 22. He would be out by 5th on this pace.

[LI-Mike]

Red Sox fans a soo stupid they go crazy over like a pop up to lead off game.:rolleyes:

Dude let me ask you a serious are you really like 12 - 14 yars old..B/c that is how you are coming off. You need to grow up a little bit...
I also have a strange feeling that you are some old boardie who si using a new name...

Mark can you check into this and see if this tool is an old "Dog" of sorts...

[LI-Mike]

Anyone hear what they were saying abiut Damon before game? He said his best career move was leaving Boston


More useless crap from you...

You are starting to sound like Toight....

[TastySweetNutz]

More useless crap from you...

You are starting to sound like Toight....
Every team has one of them. Red Sox has Toight and the Yanks have Bronx Bombers. Just keep in mind that they are only but a few in vast group of good, level headed fans.

[LI-Mike]

tasty..i know that and I respect most yankee fans...but BB is a board pest like toight...They both think they speak for the entire fan base...

[Bronx Bombers]

I think its cause Yankees are 4.5 games up. And what does age have anything to do with it im not 12-14 but really what the hell does it have to do with anything?

[Bronx Bombers]

And im not Dog or whatever his name is

[SharpyDave]

Gee, another typical stressful game.

[benh911]

I don't think my heart can take these games. The Red Sox for me are like a bad habit/addiction. After these last three games I was so disgusted, yet the next day, they go right back on. Great bunt by Youk btw.:mad: :rolleyes:
Why no pinch runner for Ortiz?

[SharpyDave]

It's all fun and games on the weekends but I have to go to work tomorrow morning.

[benh911]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This team is an absolute f#%$#in joke. Any Sox fans actually think they're gonna win this game? I sure as hell don't

[Hardcore Legend]

Red Sox are dead, Jeter proves why he is the AL MVP this year. Remember, just cause you hit the most HRs doesn't make you the MVP. When you bat .380 with RISP, that's a good indicator of how important you are to your team.

[SharpyDave]

^ plus he plays the field :D

[TastySweetNutz]

Thank god for those extra 2 runs. I wasn't comfortable with just that Giambi HR. This game needs to end. I've got to go to work!

[benh911]

Red Sox are dead, Jeter proves why he is the AL MVP this year. Remember, just cause you hit the most HRs doesn't make you the MVP. When you bat .380 with RISP, that's a good indicator of how important you are to your team.

Even though I'm a Red Sox fan, I do respect Jeter. But you're right, it's not because you hit the most HR's, it's about winning ball games, which is why Ortiz should win:D . But don't throw out the playing the field thing, I'm not here to have an argument about this, cause it will never end.

[lionking]

4 out of 5 sounds good to me and we still have a chance to win later tonight

[Bronx Bombers]

BS

[Bronx Bombers]

Are you guys still gonna say the Red Sox still have a chance. Well we can still finish only 4.5 back:rolleyes:

[Thoughtful]

I tip my hat to the Yankees, although I must say I have never been so embarrassed to root for the Red Sox. This series is an embarrassment of historic proportions. I root for a team that just whines and *****es and makes excuses while the Yankees just go out and win. What the hell is there NOT to feel bad about right now?

[Bronx Bombers]

Boston Massacre v2

[Thoughtful]

But hey, it's not all bad for the Red Sox. You can bet that with their big salaries they'll be watching the MLB playoffs and World Series on REALLY nice HD television sets!

[Green-eye Glow]

the sox are only 5.5 back and fewer back in the wild card. the season is far from over.

if anything, this series might have beat up on the sox psyche just a bit, but they are still very much alive in the play-off hunt.

[Hardcore Legend]

The Red Sox won't win the AL East, but they can still muscle their way to the Wild Card. The question you have to ask yourself is this: What was Theo doing? How did he think that THIS team was the type that could win a Divisional title+beyond? It's got ancient pitching and erractic youngsters coupled with a unreliable bullpen.

The bright spot in the bullpen was Papelbon and now he's got a taste of what it's like to face Derek Jeter/The Yankees in a pennant race.

[Mark Weber]

i also think its great that the Redsox ownership doesnt have the "must win it all now" attitude. They didnt trade away all their young talent. Winning it all this year and then having to rebuild in a year or 2 doesnt help the franchise. Being competitive and rebuilding at same time is the way to go.

id much rather not win this year and keep the young players then win it all this year and suck for a couple years after. i still think they can win this year.... just gonna need the guys we lost back.

Boston traded away all these guys since the end of last season:

22-year-old SS Hanley Ramirez is hitting .268 with 11 HR, 88 runs & 39 steals for the Marlins.

22-year-old RHP Anibal Sanchez is 4-2 with a 3.70 ERA in nine starts for the Marlins.

26-year-old C Kelly Shoppach is hitting .250 with 3 HR and 12 RBI in 72 at-bats for the Indians.

29-year-old SP Bronson Arroyo is 10-8 with a 3.45 ERA for the Reds.

28-year-old C Josh Bard is hitting .326 with 7 HR and 30 RBI in 175 at-bats for the Padres.

23-year-old RP Cla Meredith is 2-1 with a 1.07 ERA in 25 appearances for the Padres.

29-year-old RP David Riske is 1-1 with a 2.77 ERA through 24 games with the White Sox.

3B Andy Marte hit .322 with 15 HR and 46 RBI in 357 Buffalo at-bats; now with the Indians.

There are still PTBN involved in the panic trades for Josh Johnson, Eric Hinske and Javy Lopez. While I think Boston's smart for holding on to Hansen, Delcarmen and Papelbon, let's not ignore all the young (to youngish) talent they got rid off this season.

[Mark Weber]

Even though I'm a Red Sox fan, I do respect Jeter. But you're right, it's not because you hit the most HR's, it's about winning ball games, which is why Ortiz should win:D . But don't throw out the playing the field thing, I'm not here to have an argument about this, cause it will never end.

If you'd consider a DH for MVP how about Travis Hafner? His numbers are comparable to Ortiz and he's doing it with Victor Martinez behind him in the order instead of Manny Ramirez...

[Rich Zufelt]

Dozed off with Yanks losing (comes with working 80+ hours a week) , wake up in the 10th with Rivera on the mound. Then I was so juiced I could not get back to sleep !! As a Yankee die hard, I will never count the Sox out of the playoffs. Then can easily slide into the wild card, but the division is officially clinched.

[Thur34]

[quote=Rich Zufelt]Dozed off with Yanks losing quote]

Me too brother. I woke up at about 2:00 am EST, checked the scores and couldn't believe it. I really thought the Red Sox would pull this one out; not that I wanted them too, mind you.

Let's pull for the 5-game sweep!

As for the division being "clinched", don't put the cart befor the horse. They still have about 40 games each to play. A win today would help the Yankees cause (obviously), but with a loss, the Sox would only be 4.5 games back.

[ToightLikeATiger]

Boston traded away all these guys since the end of last season:

22-year-old SS Hanley Ramirez is hitting .268 with 11 HR, 88 runs & 39 steals for the Marlins.

22-year-old RHP Anibal Sanchez is 4-2 with a 3.70 ERA in nine starts for the Marlins.

26-year-old C Kelly Shoppach is hitting .250 with 3 HR and 12 RBI in 72 at-bats for the Indians.

29-year-old SP Bronson Arroyo is 10-8 with a 3.45 ERA for the Reds.

28-year-old C Josh Bard is hitting .326 with 7 HR and 30 RBI in 175 at-bats for the Padres.

23-year-old RP Cla Meredith is 2-1 with a 1.07 ERA in 25 appearances for the Padres.

29-year-old RP David Riske is 1-1 with a 2.77 ERA through 24 games with the White Sox.

3B Andy Marte hit .322 with 15 HR and 46 RBI in 357 Buffalo at-bats; now with the Indians.

There are still PTBN involved in the panic trades for Josh Johnson, Eric Hinske and Javy Lopez. While I think Boston's smart for holding on to Hansen, Delcarmen and Papelbon, let's not ignore all the young (to youngish) talent they got rid off this season.

funny you ignore what they got in return.

Josh Beckett- 25yrs old
Wily Mo Pena- 24 yrs old
Coco Crisp- 25 yrs old

so althought they dealt young guys they got young proven guys in return. just Coco and Beckett havent played to their potential. But their track record at the time showed they were good moves to make.

Dont bring up Josh Bard and David Riske either. they were free agent acquisitions not prospects.

your arguments are as horrible as the Deion Sanders situation mark.

[TastySweetNutz]

funny you ignore what they got in return.

Josh Beckett- 25yrs old
Wily Mo Pena- 24 yrs old
Coco Crisp- 25 yrs old

so althought they dealt young guys they got young proven guys in return. just Coco and Beckett havent played to their potential. But their track record at the time showed they were good moves to make.

Dont bring up Josh Bard and David Riske either. they were free agent acquisitions not prospects.

your arguments are as horrible as the Deion Sanders situation mark.
I don't know but looking at that list of what they gave away. I'd take Sanchez, Ramirez and Marte before the likes of the 3 the Sox got in return. At least with the younger group they have the prospects of improving where I don't see that with Beckett and Crisp. But I give credit for the Sox for at least pulling the trigger on the deals.

[chucknorris666]

Well atleast I know that I can give up on baseball this year and concentrate on football now. Go Pats!

[Bronx Bombers]

:rolleyes: funny you ignore what they got in return.

Josh Beckett- 25yrs old
Wily Mo Pena- 24 yrs old
Coco Crisp- 25 yrs old

so althought they dealt young guys they got young proven guys in return. just Coco and Beckett havent played to their potential. But their track record at the time showed they were good moves to make.

Dont bring up Josh Bard and David Riske either. they were free agent acquisitions not prospects.

your arguments are as horrible as the Deion Sanders situation mark.


I can see how its totally wort giving up all them guys for 3 people.:rolleyes:

[ToightLikeATiger]

I don't know but looking at that list of what they gave away. I'd take Sanchez, Ramirez and Marte before the likes of the 3 the Sox got in return. At least with the younger group they have the prospects of improving where I don't see that with Beckett and Crisp. But I give credit for the Sox for at least pulling the trigger on the deals.

going into this year Beckett was young pitcher who won a world series mvp. has shown he can pitch in big games and pitches very well. looked he could be the ace of any staff.

Coco Crisp was one of the best leadoff men in baseball last year. A lot of teams were interested in acquiring him.

so when the Redsox made the moves they looked great and very smart. This year has been bad for both.

I wont call both deals bad yet though. like i said before they are only 25. not even prime of their careers. I think they can improve. Beckett will need to learn how to pitch in the offseason though.

[ToightLikeATiger]

:rolleyes:


I can see how its totally wort giving up all them guys for 3 people.:rolleyes:

they gave up sanchez and ramirez for beckett and lowell.

they gave up marte and shoppach for crisp

they gave up arroyo for pena.

so they gave up 4 prospects and arroyo for 4 players. 3 young potential allstars and a gold glove 3rd baseman who is hitting pretty well.

giving up 5 guys to get 4 is really giving up a lot:rolleyes:

maybe when you grow up you'll understand baseball better. there is more to baseball then just cheering for the Yankees. you're a disgrace to the true Yankees fans here and everywhere.

[Lord_Stanley_#89]

5 out of 9 players in the starting lineup are home grown

Jetes
Bernie
Cabrera
Cano
Posada

Then you have the closer...oh what's his name..oh that guy...ummm

Rivera

[SmartassBoiler]

If you'd consider a DH for MVP how about Travis Hafner? His numbers are comparable to Ortiz and he's doing it with Victor Martinez behind him in the order instead of Manny Ramirez...

Name a time when Hafner got a big hit in a game that meant something this year.

Well, since he plays for the Indians...I can't name a game they've played that meant something, much less what he did.

If you want to solely look at stats, sure, Hafner is in the same ballpark. However, that's not all that should be considered.

[SmartassBoiler]

Bernie


LF - Cabrera
CF - Damon
RF - Abreu
DH - Giambi

Where's Bernie start...at pitcher? Some of you Yankees fans amaze me how you don't even know your own team.

[Lord_Stanley_#89]

LF - Cabrera
CF - Damon
RF - Abreu
DH - Giambi

Where's Bernie start...at pitcher? Some of you Yankees fans amaze me how you don't even know your own team.
Let's see:

Friday Nights Game - CF - Williams
Saturday - RF - Williams
Sunday - PH - RF - Williams

Sup?:rolleyes:

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

Red Sox are dead, Jeter proves why he is the AL MVP this year. Remember, just cause you hit the most HRs doesn't make you the MVP. When you bat .380 with RISP, that's a good indicator of how important you are to your team.

Oh, give me a ******* break.

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

5 out of 9 players in the starting lineup are home grown

Jetes
Bernie
Cabrera
Cano
Posada

Then you have the closer...oh what's his name..oh that guy...ummm

Rivera

I'm sick of you Yankee fans creating a straw man which was never touched on by us Yankee haters simply because you cannot refute our main argument. When has anyone said that the Yankees cannot develop youth? The knock on them in the past has been that they usually aren't patient enough to reap the benefits from their youth (until the recent change of heart: Wang, Cano, Cabrera, Hughes, etc.). Those are two completely different things. Plus, they also have a HUGE advantage when it comes to retaining their own players. They can keep all their young players when they hit free agency, alot of franchises out there can keep a couple of their young players but only one team can keep every single one of them and that team is the Yankees. That gives them a huge advantage over other franchises who usually deal with alot of turnover with the roster every winter.

[SmartassBoiler]

Let's see:

Friday Nights Game - CF - Williams
Saturday - RF - Williams
Sunday - PH - RF - Williams

Sup?:rolleyes:

Friday was a double header and he started to give the OF a break. Sunday he pinch hit.

His playing time has been erratic ever since the acquisition of Abreu, including not even getting an at-bat between August 12th and 16th. He only started once in the series against the White Sox. That doesn't sound like a starter to me.

Way to look at the big picture instead of trying to use one series in your argument, so you can take your sup and half-knowledge of your team and flush it along with the Yankee's 2006 World Series hopes. ;)

[Lord_Stanley_#89]

Friday was a double header and he started to give the OF a break. Sunday he pinch hit.

His playing time has been erratic ever since the acquisition of Abreu, including not even getting an at-bat between August 12th and 16th. He only started once in the series against the White Sox. That doesn't sound like a starter to me.

Way to look at the big picture instead of trying to use one series in your argument, so you can take your sup and half-knowledge of your team and flush it along with the Yankee's 2006 World Series hopes. ;)

But he played ;) :D

[ToightLikeATiger]

dont worry SAB... half the "yankees fans" here dont have a clue about the team. they just are fans cause its the cool thing to do since they win a lot. they dont know what its like to have passion and grow up loving a baseball team.

so you really shouldnt be suprised when some of these guys come on here and dont really have a clue about the Yankees. They think putting on a Yankees hat makes them the biggest fan

[Lord_Stanley_#89]

dont worry SAB... half the "yankees fans" here dont have a clue about the team. they just are fans cause its the cool thing to do since they win a lot. they dont know what its like to have passion and grow up loving a baseball team.

so you really shouldnt be suprised when some of these guys come on here and dont really have a clue about the Yankees. They think putting on a Yankees hat makes them the biggest fan
Interesting - I was born in 1980 and have been a fan of the Yankees since 1988 - when Donnie Baseball became my idol - and endured the roller coaster that was the late eighties/early 90's.

Next.

[Mark Weber]

funny you ignore what they got in return.

Josh Beckett- 25yrs old
Wily Mo Pena- 24 yrs old
Coco Crisp- 25 yrs old

so althought they dealt young guys they got young proven guys in return. just Coco and Beckett havent played to their potential. But their track record at the time showed they were good moves to make.

Dont bring up Josh Bard and David Riske either. they were free agent acquisitions not prospects.

your arguments are as horrible as the Deion Sanders situation mark.

I'm not ignoring anything Tiger - though I'd argue that Beckett reached his potential in 2003, that Pena is a typical Boston acquisition so they can show a homegrown prospect the door (see ya Nixon!), and that you gave up too much for Coco Crisp especially with Jacob Ellsbury on the fast-track through your minor league system. Unless Theo plans to ditch Ellsbury in typical Red Sox fashion.

Dont bring up Josh Bard and David Riske either. they were free agent acquisitions not prospects.

Except that they weren't. To refresh your memory:

1/27/06 Acquired OF Coco Crisp, RHP David Riske and C Josh Bard from Cleveland for RHP Guillermo Mota, 3B Andy Marte, C Kelly Shoppach, cash considerations, and a player to be named or further cash considerations.

Mark Weber - keeping Red Sox fans up to date about their team since 2003. This just in - your team has gotten it handed to them four straight at Fenway in what's being called "The Boston Massacre II."

Your counter-arguments are as solid as the Boston bullpen tiger.

[Mark Weber]

Coco Crisp was one of the best leadoff men in baseball last year. A lot of teams were interested in acquiring him.

Coco Crisp ranked 131st in on-base percentage in the Major Leagues last year, while displaying a little pop (16 homers) and a little speed (15 steals). I'm not sure how many teams actually inquired about him, but I'm willing to bet nobody offered the dynamite deal Boston did. Even with his injury in 2006, he's replicated the same sort of power and actually increased his stolen bases, so I'm not sure I'd call this a down year for Crisp, I think it's pretty representative of the player he is. Still, Ellsbury is on the way, and everything I've read about him seems to indicate he's the real deal.

[SmartassBoiler]

But he played ;) :D

Yes, starting and playing is obviously the same thing.

[Makaveli_tha_don]

I wonder how it must sound like in Boston today? :)

[Bronx Bombers]

So growing up for a wining team means you dont have any passion for baseball? But if your team sucks then you can love the game of baseball? And i wasnt a Yankee fan cause winning i was because my Grandfather was and he was cause he lived in Bronx.

[Bronx Bombers]

I wonder how it must sound like in Boston today? :)

Like the middle of Desert, instead of tumbleweeds theres red sox hats bounceing around.

[NYHoustonman]

I'm not ignoring anything Tiger - though I'd argue that Beckett reached his potential in 2003, that Pena is a typical Boston acquisition so they can show a homegrown prospect the door (see ya Nixon!), and that you gave up too much for Coco Crisp especially with Jacob Ellsbury on the fast-track through your minor league system. Unless Theo plans to ditch Ellsbury in typical Red Sox fashion.


Crisp may be a bit overrated, but I think everyone expected (at least) a higher batting average out of him. If you look at the past 3 years and HONESTLY think he's not having a down year, especially considering he's just entering his prime, well, I don't know what to say.

Beckett, for whatever reason, just hasn't been able to put it together. He had his lowest ERA in 2003, yes, but he has remained basically the same the last 3 years while pitching more innings each year. As with Coco Crisp, it was not unreasonable to expect some growth from him. Acquiring someone who could be, according to several analysts, a legitimate Cy Young candidate is a big deal, even if the Sox did trade away some good young players.

Wily Mo Pena is the same deal, although he hasn't had a bad year; he just hasn't played very much. If he can develop some kind of patience at the plate, he could be a very good hitter.

Overall, I was not at all upset with the deals the Sox pulled off in the offseason. If even Wakefield, Clement, and Wells had been available for more of the season (rather than guys like Kyle Snyder and Jason Johnson), Boston could have been in a very different position right now. As it is, even if they do make the playoffs, they're not going anywhere.

[Lord_Stanley_#89]

Like the middle of Desert, instead of tumbleweeds theres red sox hats bounceing around.
And there's a plentiful amount of empty bandwagons :)

[ToightLikeATiger]

I'm not ignoring anything Tiger - though I'd argue that Beckett reached his potential in 2003, that Pena is a typical Boston acquisition so they can show a homegrown prospect the door (see ya Nixon!), and that you gave up too much for Coco Crisp especially with Jacob Ellsbury on the fast-track through your minor league system. Unless Theo plans to ditch Ellsbury in typical Red Sox fashion.



Except that they weren't. To refresh your memory:

1/27/06 Acquired OF Coco Crisp, RHP David Riske and C Josh Bard from Cleveland for RHP Guillermo Mota, 3B Andy Marte, C Kelly Shoppach, cash considerations, and a player to be named or further cash considerations.

Mark Weber - keeping Red Sox fans up to date about their team since 2003. This just in - your team has gotten it handed to them four straight at Fenway in what's being called "The Boston Massacre II."

Your counter-arguments are as solid as the Boston bullpen tiger.

you are right they were part of the trade... but still not prospects. and you think its the end of the world cause Boston lost 4 straight to NY? its not.

heck with NY's lineup and extra 100 million dollars they should be doing that. They clearly have a better team since each position is filled by an All Star (except LF until Matsui is back). Noone every doubted the Yankees were the best team money could buy.

its tough to beat a lineup as good as NY when you got guys who should be in AAA pitching against them. Redsox have to live with the young arms. whether they fail or succeed this year. thats the decision (and the right one i think) the Redsox decided to make this year. It will help them in the longrun which is what counts. Dont have to win every year cause noone does. Just be competitive.

This season is far from over for Boston. Yes they have to play better. But they are still in it. 7 more games vs NY. 3 more vs Whitesox. Both Division and Wildcard are still within reach. Its gonna take another big time comeback but we all know the Redsox have done it before. The team will not quit and they will keep giving 100% until they are eliminated.

Who knows whats going to happen. Sox just need to keep it close and get Vtek and Wake back. Those 2 pieces are the biggest loses possible. Far worse then Matsui and Sheffield. Why? because the Redsox couldnt go out and replace them like the Yankees did by getting Aboo.

Unfortunetly the Marlins didnt want to give Boston Dontrelle Willis like the Philles gave NY Aboo

[GOSKINS_08]

Its official the redsox are done..

[Mark Weber]

they gave up sanchez and ramirez for beckett and lowell.

Actually, they gave up Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez, Jesus Delgado and Harvey Garcia for Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell and Guillermo Mota.

they gave up marte and shoppach for crisp

Actually, they gave up Guillermo Mota, Andy Marte, Kelly Shoppach plus cash or a PTBN to get Coco Crisp, David Riske and Josh Bard. To get Marte, Boston traded 2006 All-Star shortstop Edgar Renteria.

they gave up arroyo for pena.

It was 2006 N.L. All-Star Bronson Arroyo plus cash for Wily Mo Pena.

Boston also sent Josh Bard and Cla Meredith to San Diego to get Doug Mirabelli back. They ended up sending David Riske to Chicago for Javier Lopez. If you mix those deals together into one megatrade it shakes out like this this:

BOSTON got:

24-year-old OF Wily Mo Pena (hitting .295 with 9 HR and 35 RBI in 200 Boston at-bats.)

26-year-old SP Josh Beckett (13-8 with a 5.35 ERA and a ML-leading 32 HRs surrendered.)

26-year-old CF Coco Crisp (hitting .271 with 6 hR, 16 SB, 50 Runs and 26 RBI)

29-year-old RP Javier Lopez (0-0 with a 4.15 ERA through 16 appearances with Boston.)

32-year-old 3B Mike Lowell (hitting .288 with 14 homers and 60 RBI with only 5 errors.)

35-year-old C Doug Mirabelli (hitting .200 with 6 HR and 20 RBI in 110 Boston at-bats)

BOSTON lost:
22-year-old SS Hanley Ramirez (hitting .268 with 11 HR, 88 runs & 39 steals for the Marlins.)

22-year-old RHP Anibal Sanchez (4-2 with a 3.70 ERA in nine starts for the Marlins.)

22-year-old 3B Andy Marte (hit .322 with 15 HR and 46 RBI in 357 at-bats with Triple-A Buffao; now with the Indians.)

22-year-old RP Jesus Delgado (2-4 with a 2.58 ERA for the Class A Jupiter Hammerheads.)

22-year-old RP Harvey Garcia (0-7 with 19 saves and a 2.92 ERA for the Class A Jupiter Hammerheads.)

23-year-old RP Cla Meredith (2-1 with a 1.07 ERA in 25 appearances for the Padres.)

26-year-old C Kelly Shoppach (hitting .250 with 3 HR and 12 RBI in 72 at-bats for the Indians.)

28-year-old C Josh Bard (hitting .326 with 7 HR and 30 RBI in 175 at-bats for the Padres.)

29-year-old 2006 N.L. All-Star All-Star SP Bronson Arroyo (10-8 with a 3.45 ERA for the Reds.)

29-year-old RP David Riske (1-1 with a 2.77 ERA through 24 games with the White Sox.)

31-year-old 2006 N.L. All-Star SS Edgar Renteria (hitting .302 with 82 runs and 50 RBI with only 9 errors for the Braves.)

33-year-old RP Guillermo Mota (1-1 with a 6.21 ERA through 34 appearances with the Indians; just acquired by the New York Mets.)

So your trade analysis isn't accurate:

so they gave up 4 prospects and arroyo for 4 players. 3 young potential allstars and a gold glove 3rd baseman who is hitting pretty well.

giving up 5 guys to get 4 is really giving up a lot:rolleyes:

So you gave up two All-Stars, six prospects (four of which are playing in the Majors right now), two Major League catchers, a quality reliever, and a guy who looks like he's done (Mota) to acquire a 26-year-old power pitcher with control issues, a good centerfielder, a good slugging OF, a decent reliever, a Gold Glove-caliber 3B with a fading bat, and a 35-year old backup catcher.

I'm not spinning that Boston didn't get any talent back. I think Beckett will rebound, Crisp is a good player and Pena hits the ball REALLY hard. In the end though, I think the Red Sox gave up WAY too much (12 players for six) in their trades this year.

[Bronx Bombers]

Actually, they gave up Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez, Jesus Delgado and Harvey Garcia for Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell and Guillermo Mota.



Actually, they gave up Guillermo Mota, Andy Marte, Kelly Shoppach plus cash or a PTBN to get Coco Crisp, David Riske and Josh Bard. To get Marte, Boston traded 2006 All-Star shortstop Edgar Renteria.



It was 2006 N.L. All-Star Bronson Arroyo plus cash for Wily Mo Pena.

Boston also sent Josh Bard and Cla Meredith to San Diego to get Doug Mirabelli back. They ended up sending David Riske to Chicago for Javier Lopez. If you mix those deals together into one megatrade it shakes out like this this:

BOSTON got:

24-year-old OF Wily Mo Pena (hitting .295 with 9 HR and 35 RBI in 200 Boston at-bats.)

26-year-old SP Josh Beckett (13-8 with a 5.35 ERA and a ML-leading 32 HRs surrendered.)

26-year-old CF Coco Crisp (hitting .271 with 6 hR, 16 SB, 50 Runs and 26 RBI)

29-year-old RP Javier Lopez (0-0 with a 4.15 ERA through 16 appearances with Boston.)

32-year-old 3B Mike Lowell (hitting .288 with 14 homers and 60 RBI with only 5 errors.)

35-year-old C Doug Mirabelli (hitting .200 with 6 HR and 20 RBI in 110 Boston at-bats)

BOSTON lost:
22-year-old SS Hanley Ramirez (hitting .268 with 11 HR, 88 runs & 39 steals for the Marlins.)

22-year-old RHP Anibal Sanchez (4-2 with a 3.70 ERA in nine starts for the Marlins.)

22-year-old 3B Andy Marte (hit .322 with 15 HR and 46 RBI in 357 at-bats with Triple-A Buffao; now with the Indians.)

22-year-old RP Jesus Delgado (2-4 with a 2.58 ERA for the Class A Jupiter Hammerheads.)

22-year-old RP Harvey Garcia (0-7 with 19 saves and a 2.92 ERA for the Class A Jupiter Hammerheads.)

23-year-old RP Cla Meredith (2-1 with a 1.07 ERA in 25 appearances for the Padres.)

26-year-old C Kelly Shoppach (hitting .250 with 3 HR and 12 RBI in 72 at-bats for the Indians.)

28-year-old C Josh Bard (hitting .326 with 7 HR and 30 RBI in 175 at-bats for the Padres.)

29-year-old 2006 N.L. All-Star All-Star SP Bronson Arroyo (10-8 with a 3.45 ERA for the Reds.)

29-year-old RP David Riske (1-1 with a 2.77 ERA through 24 games with the White Sox.)

31-year-old 2006 N.L. All-Star SS Edgar Renteria (hitting .302 with 82 runs and 50 RBI with only 9 errors for the Braves.)

33-year-old RP Guillermo Mota (1-1 with a 6.21 ERA through 34 appearances with the Indians; just acquired by the New York Mets.)

So your trade analysis isn't accurate:



So you gave up two All-Stars, six prospects (four of which are playing in the Majors right now), two Major League catchers, a quality reliever, and a guy who looks like he's done (Mota) to acquire a 26-year-old power pitcher with control issues, a good centerfielder, a good slugging OF, a decent reliever, a Gold Glove-caliber 3B with a fading bat, and a 35-year old backup catcher.

I'm not spinning that Boston didn't get any talent back. I think Beckett will rebound, Crisp is a good player and Pena hits the ball REALLY hard. In the end though, I think the Red Sox gave up WAY too much (12 players for six) in their trades this year.


How much research do you do?

[Mark Weber]

Name a time when Hafner got a big hit in a game that meant something this year.

Well, since he plays for the Indians...I can't name a game they've played that meant something, much less what he did.

If you want to solely look at stats, sure, Hafner is in the same ballpark. However, that's not all that should be considered.

If the Sox continue their slide, don't Hafner and Ortiz have similar roles - monster-hitting DHs on teams that didn't make the playoffs? Ortiz just has better protection from Manny Rmirez than Hafner has from Victor Martinez.

[Mark Weber]

I'm sick of you Yankee fans creating a straw man which was never touched on by us Yankee haters simply because you cannot refute our main argument. When has anyone said that the Yankees cannot develop youth? The knock on them in the past has been that they usually aren't patient enough to reap the benefits from their youth (until the recent change of heart: Wang, Cano, Cabrera, Hughes, etc.). Those are two completely different things. Plus, they also have a HUGE advantage when it comes to retaining their own players. They can keep all their young players when they hit free agency, alot of franchises out there can keep a couple of their young players but only one team can keep every single one of them and that team is the Yankees. That gives them a huge advantage over other franchises who usually deal with alot of turnover with the roster every winter.

I don't dispute any of this VC - I think you hit it dead-on. I think the "straw man" you're referring to was touched on by Tiger when he talked about the "dry" Yankee farm system.

[Tom R from Pittsburgh]

Heres hoping the red sox and yankees brawl, and both teams become too injured to play and the Blue Jays waltz into the playoffs. Oh wait, I am sure the Yankees could buy a few more players for the rest of the season..

[Mark Weber]

dont worry SAB... half the "yankees fans" here dont have a clue about the team. they just are fans cause its the cool thing to do since they win a lot. they dont know what its like to have passion and grow up loving a baseball team.

so you really shouldnt be suprised when some of these guys come on here and dont really have a clue about the Yankees. They think putting on a Yankees hat makes them the biggest fan

The irony of this post on the same page as your butchered recollection of this year's Red Sox trades and free agent signings is priceless.

[Makaveli_tha_don]

looks like there will be a good pitching matchup with today's game for a change...

[Mark Weber]

Who knows whats going to happen. Sox just need to keep it close and get Vtek and Wake back. Those 2 pieces are the biggest loses possible. Far worse then Matsui and Sheffield. Why? because the Redsox couldnt go out and replace them like the Yankees did by getting Aboo.

Unfortunetly the Marlins didnt want to give Boston Dontrelle Willis like the Philles gave NY Aboo

So Boston making waiver trades for Javy Lopez and Erik Hinske isn't replacing Varitek and Nixon? Why is New York having the prospects (and salary capacity) to send for Abreu & Lidle any different than Boston picking up Hinske and Lopez to fill their injury holes? Is it because NY got a better player?

[Lord_Stanley_#89]

Yes, starting and playing is obviously the same thing.
SmartAssBoiler - I can't quite read so well these days but who is playing CF for the New York Yankees today? ;)

[Mark Weber]

How much research do you do?

The scary part is I knew most of the names, but had to look up their stats and ages...

[Makaveli_tha_don]

The scary part is I knew most of the names, but had to look up their stats and ages...

Mark, will the new Giambi figure have facial hair in honor of the HIt Man?

[NYHoustonman]

Actually, they gave up Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez, Jesus Delgado and Harvey Garcia for Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell and Guillermo Mota.



Actually, they gave up Guillermo Mota, Andy Marte, Kelly Shoppach plus cash or a PTBN to get Coco Crisp, David Riske and Josh Bard. To get Marte, Boston traded 2006 All-Star shortstop Edgar Renteria.



It was 2006 N.L. All-Star Bronson Arroyo plus cash for Wily Mo Pena.

Boston also sent Josh Bard and Cla Meredith to San Diego to get Doug Mirabelli back. They ended up sending David Riske to Chicago for Javier Lopez. If you mix those deals together into one megatrade it shakes out like this this:

BOSTON got:

24-year-old OF Wily Mo Pena (hitting .295 with 9 HR and 35 RBI in 200 Boston at-bats.)

26-year-old SP Josh Beckett (13-8 with a 5.35 ERA and a ML-leading 32 HRs surrendered.)

26-year-old CF Coco Crisp (hitting .271 with 6 hR, 16 SB, 50 Runs and 26 RBI)

29-year-old RP Javier Lopez (0-0 with a 4.15 ERA through 16 appearances with Boston.)

32-year-old 3B Mike Lowell (hitting .288 with 14 homers and 60 RBI with only 5 errors.)

35-year-old C Doug Mirabelli (hitting .200 with 6 HR and 20 RBI in 110 Boston at-bats)

BOSTON lost:
22-year-old SS Hanley Ramirez (hitting .268 with 11 HR, 88 runs & 39 steals for the Marlins.)

22-year-old RHP Anibal Sanchez (4-2 with a 3.70 ERA in nine starts for the Marlins.)

22-year-old 3B Andy Marte (hit .322 with 15 HR and 46 RBI in 357 at-bats with Triple-A Buffao; now with the Indians.)

22-year-old RP Jesus Delgado (2-4 with a 2.58 ERA for the Class A Jupiter Hammerheads.)

22-year-old RP Harvey Garcia (0-7 with 19 saves and a 2.92 ERA for the Class A Jupiter Hammerheads.)

23-year-old RP Cla Meredith (2-1 with a 1.07 ERA in 25 appearances for the Padres.)

26-year-old C Kelly Shoppach (hitting .250 with 3 HR and 12 RBI in 72 at-bats for the Indians.)

28-year-old C Josh Bard (hitting .326 with 7 HR and 30 RBI in 175 at-bats for the Padres.)

29-year-old 2006 N.L. All-Star All-Star SP Bronson Arroyo (10-8 with a 3.45 ERA for the Reds.)

29-year-old RP David Riske (1-1 with a 2.77 ERA through 24 games with the White Sox.)

31-year-old 2006 N.L. All-Star SS Edgar Renteria (hitting .302 with 82 runs and 50 RBI with only 9 errors for the Braves.)

33-year-old RP Guillermo Mota (1-1 with a 6.21 ERA through 34 appearances with the Indians; just acquired by the New York Mets.)

So your trade analysis isn't accurate:



So you gave up two All-Stars, six prospects (four of which are playing in the Majors right now), two Major League catchers, a quality reliever, and a guy who looks like he's done (Mota) to acquire a 26-year-old power pitcher with control issues, a good centerfielder, a good slugging OF, a decent reliever, a Gold Glove-caliber 3B with a fading bat, and a 35-year old backup catcher.

I'm not spinning that Boston didn't get any talent back. I think Beckett will rebound, Crisp is a good player and Pena hits the ball REALLY hard. In the end though, I think the Red Sox gave up WAY too much (12 players for six) in their trades this year.

Not that it matters much, but you left out Alex Gonzalez, who has been great when he's played. Other than that, what I said in my last reply still stands.

[Makaveli_tha_don]

Abreu has given the Yankees the lead!:)

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

LOL, it looks like the Jays have a better chance of finishing second than the Red Sox after this series. Man, what a let down by Boston. It also doesn't get any easier for the Red Sox, they have the toughest schedule in the AL from here on out I believe.

[ToightLikeATiger]

lol im done discussing anything with you mark. comparing lopez and hinske as replacements to Aboo? your even less knowledgable then i thought.

post crap if you want i dont care. not responding. only reason i read what you say from now on is because i cant ignore a mod

[Hardcore Legend]

Oh no Mark, you've gone on Toight's list. Which means you probably like to use crutches in arguments like 'logic' and 'reason'.

[Makaveli_tha_don]

I would never have imagined the Yankees going into Fenway, sweeping the series from the Red Sox and leaving with 6.5 lead...NEVER!! :eek:

[Makaveli_tha_don]

uh-oh...Pena just hit a homerun, better bring in Mariano!

[SmartassBoiler]

If the Sox continue their slide, don't Hafner and Ortiz have similar roles - monster-hitting DHs on teams that didn't make the playoffs? Ortiz just has better protection from Manny Rmirez than Hafner has from Victor Martinez.

Hafner: .306, 38 HRs, 110 RBIs, 91 Rs, .431 OBP, .649 SLG
Ortiz: .286, 44 HRs, 117 RBIs, 93 Rs, .399 OBP, .629 SLG

Yes, they should receive a similar amount of votes from these stats. Hafner gets on base more, but Ortiz has better power numbers. However, in close and late situations:

Ortiz: .324, 11 HRs, 26 RBIs in 71 ABs
Hafner: .404, 4 HRs, 9 RBIs in 52 ABs

Fault of team or not, Ortiz has huge power numbers in close and late situations. Would Hafner have the same numbers in the same situations with the Red Sox? Maybe similar, but Ortiz has a huge advantage here and that's what I think matters.

[SmartassBoiler]

SmartAssBoiler - I can't quite read so well these days but who is playing CF for the New York Yankees today? ;)

You're missing the big picture, and the discussion has dragged out too long anyways. The big picture is the fact that Bernie Williams is not an every day player anymore, and cannot be included in the "home grown starters" as of now.

[SmartassBoiler]

Heres hoping the red sox and yankees brawl, and both teams become too injured to play and the Blue Jays waltz into the playoffs. Oh wait, I am sure the Yankees could buy a few more players for the rest of the season..

Another thoughtful post in this discussion. The horse is dead.

[Makaveli_tha_don]

the Red Sox lost the game because of a wild pitch and got swept!!!

[Tanner2126]

5 game sweep!!!!

[Makaveli_tha_don]

5 game sweep!!!!

not done since 1943 :eek:

[Thur34]

5 game sweep!!!!

I had hoped coming in, but thought of it as just a "pipe dream".

[Tanner2126]

I thought it was gonna be a 3-2 series going either way.

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

Maybe now Red Sox fans will realize that Epstein has been one of the worst GMs in baseball over the last 2 years. They were exposed.

[EastcoastSean]

Blah, blah ,blah..............bring on the football season !!!! GO PATRIOTS !!!!

[Reagz]

Maybe now Red Sox fans will realize that Epstein has been one of the worst GMs in baseball over the last 2 years.


Not true. As of right now the Red Sox dont have a GM. Theo never signed a contract.

But it is sweet being a Yankee fan living here in Massachusetts right now. How sweep it is!

Go Yankees!

[Ditka Rules]

Mark, I believe this thread can be closed now. All the trash talking is done for this season.

[ComradeFlyer]

i was thinking that my relationship with the red sox was founded on tragedy and disappointment and dashed expectations, and if the red sox had won, it would have been like when they changed the formula for coca-cola. i was very upset when they did that, because there are certain things that you can count on, certain sensations that should never be altered and that should be left alone. it's very precious, and when you open a coke, it should taste a certain way. for the same reason, part of me didn't want the sox to win. i mean, i wanted them to win, and i was crushed when they didn't, but i realized that their winning would come at a price. it would change my way of looking at the red sox. the red sox are different from the yankees. you don't think of the red sox as winners. part of their charm is grabbing you by the heart and letting you down. i'm sure subliminally, psychologically, i do not think of myself as a winner, and i'm more comfortable struggling. i'm not comfortable with success.
..

[BlakChamber]

^^^
Is that The Sports Guy?

[ComradeFlyer]

^^^
Is that The Sports Guy?

i honestly cannot remember what book that is from, i read it during college. it was the only book on the red sox in my college library.

[SharpyDave]

Still almost 25% of the season to go, I won't count the Red Sox out of the playoff picture yet.

[Makaveli_tha_don]

I dedicate this to you beloved Boston fans!!! :)

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060821/capt.dd7a6bae2e9142efa1d7624f00eb9c75.yankees_red_sox_baseball_maea111.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20060821/i/r3729378680.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060821/capt.29f5e57ea7c446cdbf27cde06d98dbd2.yankees_red_sox_baseball_mack108.jpg

[TastySweetNutz]

Not true. As of right now the Red Sox dont have a GM. Theo never signed a contract.

But it is sweet being a Yankee fan living here in Massachusetts right now. How sweep it is!

Go Yankees!
Either way, Red Sox management blows and has done this team in. No action at the trading deadline and the lack of action in the off-season is what this team didn't need.

In any case, love the 5 game sweep AT FENWAY. I'd like to see where Papelbon's fist pump is at now...friggin moron.

[orionquest]

(Sorry to be absent throughout this. It wasn't the score keeping me away, but the responsibilities of man about to be a first-time father any day that had my attention all weekend.)

Well, it needs to be said:

Congraulations, Yankees. The division is all but secured after what will likely be remembered as the sequel to the 1978 Boston Massacre.

The Yankees deserve full credit because they only played poorly in one game, kept their concentration and fire throughout, and didn't let up. Every weakness and criticism the Red Sox harbored over the past month was exposed in very bright light.

Sometimes, teams have "if it can go wrong, it will" types of seasons. This is one. My father and his friends are talking about how it feels like 1978 all over again. I was 8 then, and had my heart broken as a Sox fan for the first time. I'm sure it's similar.

These are the moments as fans when we must remember that it's more than one season. Even if the Sox were to squeeze into the playoffs this year, I didn't expect them to go far. We'll see where the future leads.

So, Yanks fans... I ask you this: You see the pitching staffs in the AL Central. One won't make the playoffs. Two likely will. Who do you fear? Who do you think your boys match up against well?

[Bronx Bombers]

Red Sox are done get over theres always Patriots and next season.

[ToightLikeATiger]

i agree with you orion... im not even worried about losing 5 games. its bad for the team yes but im not angry or upset. i look at things in a bigger picture. this isnt the last season in redsox history. when building for the future and trying to compete your gonna hit bumps. this is a big bump.

the experience for the young guys though will help. Hansen was sent back down to the minors to work some things out. this is good because he got some time with the big club. failed and now can go work on improving. I would like to see Lester sent back down for the same thing. Neither guy is ready for the big club. some more AAA time will benefit both.

Alex Gonzalez may be going on the dl soon. hopefully this will be our chance to see Dustin Pedroia called up to play SS. he is the reason Hanley Ramirez was available to be traded. i really want to see what he can do in the big leagues.

IF and its a big if (because plenty of games left) the Redsox fall out of contention too much id love to see Jacoby Ellsbury called up and get some big league time. He can play some CF alternating with Coco Crisp.

I have a feeling Coco is gonna be like Renteria last year. Good looking acquisition in the offseason, never works out, gets dealt next season.

Ellsbury is probably the future CF anyway for Boston. Reason why Coco didnt get a long term deal. If Ellsbury can show signs of success the end of this season he could be the starter next year.

i guess im in the minority as a Redsox fan when it comes to the rebuilding process. Im excited to see these young guys and want to see them with the team. I still want the team to win but i want to be able to work these young guys in too.

[orionquest]

Toight, I too, am not ready to jump off the Zakim bridge (then again, I'm 3000 miles away from it) , but I am very disappointed. The second highest payroll in baseball shouldn't be playing like this. It may be the symptom of long-term rebuilding, but some of the decisions were simply too questionable too ignore.

Hopefully, we'll see a lot of rebounding and growth next year. I hope to see Coco become what we all thought he could be. I hope to see Beckett learn to pitch more than hurl. I hope to see the young arms mature. I hope to see Wily Mo get more patient and develop into a true threat at the plate. But... that's a lotta hope, ain't it?

What I find surprising is that the press isn't discussing Varitek's impact on how these young arms were holding up. The slide truly began with his departure. I think that Hansen, Delcarmen, Lester, and even Papelbon have shown serious decline without his guidance behind the plate.

Sox management has a lot of questioning to do. We haven't seen the emergence of a great acquisition like what was discovered in David Ortiz, and we'll need something like that next year to help push forward.

Oh, and Mark... I think that Ortiz's success in hitting before Manny should be addressed much more by the national media. One espn.com writer had a great column about it recently. While many Sox fans think he can simply do no wrong, I'm sure that Papi himself would gladly acknowledge what hitting in front of Manny has done for him. And Manny still has the greater average and more walks... not coincidental. While Ortiz has come up big time and again, I think Ramirez should be recognized as the best hitter of his generation. Yet his outfield mindslips and off-field goofiness seem to be all that most folks see.

[ToightLikeATiger]

right now as much as i like David Ortiz i think Manny Ramirez is tied with him in the MVP race. his numbers are great, he protects Ortiz, he has noone protecting him in the #5 hole and his defense has been very good this year.

I think Ortiz and Ramirez should be co-mvp's. they are a package of greatness.

Jermaine Dye would be 3rd on my list for mvp. Jeter 4th and Thome 5th.

[AS251BR]

How come Manny was taken out today?

[ToightLikeATiger]

How come Manny was taken out today?

he has a hamstring pull. nothing serious but with the wear and tear the last 5 games they pulled him as a precaution

[AS251BR]

he has a hamstring pull. nothing serious but with the wear and tear the last 5 games they pulled him as a precaution

Thanks for the info.

[SmartassBoiler]

SAB...Nothing you say bothers me cause we all know your a punk coward...If you dont like me, thats good, cause I dont like you either.. You talk way to much garbage..

If I don't bother you, you wouldn't respond to me every time. What does this have to do with Red Sox / Yankees anyways? You were cooler while banned. :D

[SmartassBoiler]

Toight, I too, am not ready to jump off the Zakim bridge (then again, I'm 3000 miles away from it) , but I am very disappointed. The second highest payroll in baseball shouldn't be playing like this. It may be the symptom of long-term rebuilding, but some of the decisions were simply too questionable too ignore.

Hopefully, we'll see a lot of rebounding and growth next year. I hope to see Coco become what we all thought he could be. I hope to see Beckett learn to pitch more than hurl. I hope to see the young arms mature. I hope to see Wily Mo get more patient and develop into a true threat at the plate. But... that's a lotta hope, ain't it?

What I find surprising is that the press isn't discussing Varitek's impact on how these young arms were holding up. The slide truly began with his departure. I think that Hansen, Delcarmen, Lester, and even Papelbon have shown serious decline without his guidance behind the plate.

Sox management has a lot of questioning to do. We haven't seen the emergence of a great acquisition like what was discovered in David Ortiz, and we'll need something like that next year to help push forward.

Oh, and Mark... I think that Ortiz's success in hitting before Manny should be addressed much more by the national media. One espn.com writer had a great column about it recently. While many Sox fans think he can simply do no wrong, I'm sure that Papi himself would gladly acknowledge what hitting in front of Manny has done for him. And Manny still has the greater average and more walks... not coincidental. While Ortiz has come up big time and again, I think Ramirez should be recognized as the best hitter of his generation. Yet his outfield mindslips and off-field goofiness seem to be all that most folks see.

I honestly think the best thing for your team would be to have Francona fired. I know there's some loyalty there because he led the Red Sox to a World Series, but his personel decisions are questionable and I don't like how he manages a pitching staff. This is Beckett's first year he's stayed healthy, but he's been beyond brutal this year while healthy and he's simply not even close to being this bad. He had a great start or two with Mirabelli behind the plate, but Francona hasn't paired the two since. It'd be really hard to bench Varitek for two pitchers (Wakefield, Beckett) each time they pitched, but I think his age is catching up to him at the plate and he's no longer the offensive force he once was. Papelbon hadn't pitched in 4 days, but he wasn't brought into a game the Red Sox desparately needed last night until the bases were already loaded. This is just one of many bullpen screwups he's managed this year, and I think it's time for his head.

[Bronx Bombers]

right now as much as i like David Ortiz i think Manny Ramirez is tied with him in the MVP race. his numbers are great, he protects Ortiz, he has noone protecting him in the #5 hole and his defense has been very good this year.

I think Ortiz and Ramirez should be co-mvp's. they are a package of greatness.

Jermaine Dye would be 3rd on my list for mvp. Jeter 4th and Thome 5th.


Actually if the season ended today Derek Jeter would prob win MVP, unless he Red Sox make the playoffs or come within 2 Ortix wont get it. And if Yankees win divioson by 10+ Jeter would get even more 1st place votes.

[orionquest]

I honestly think the best thing for your team would be to have Francona fired. I know there's some loyalty there because he led the Red Sox to a World Series, but his personel decisions are questionable and I don't like how he manages a pitching staff. This is Beckett's first year he's stayed healthy, but he's been beyond brutal this year while healthy and he's simply not even close to being this bad. He had a great start or two with Mirabelli behind the plate, but Francona hasn't paired the two since. It'd be really hard to bench Varitek for two pitchers (Wakefield, Beckett) each time they pitched, but I think his age is catching up to him at the plate and he's no longer the offensive force he once was. Papelbon hadn't pitched in 4 days, but he wasn't brought into a game the Red Sox desparately needed last night until the bases were already loaded. This is just one of many bullpen screwups he's managed this year, and I think it's time for his head.

SAB, while I think you make a point given the particular issues stated, I don't see it as reason to axe him. If anything, Francona has been dealing with a limited amount of bullpen options and a more injured Varitek than has been let on.

I've seen enough of Francona this year to believe he's doing well with what he's had, and his club has been a few Ortiz heroics removed from being caught by the Yankees a month ago. It's painful for me to watch as a Sox fan, but I believe the reality has been that management's reluctance to play for this year, and their insistance on looking to the future has hurt Francona's ability to be effective.

Additionally, I think that if he's shown the door, the remaining veterans will get more antsy. Tito has nurtured a great relationship with Manny, more than I think gets press coverage, and they've earned each others' trust. Remove him, and the best hitter in the lineup, if not the best hitter in baseball, starts yapping about trade requests again. He also has a history with Schilling, and while Schill's time with the club has an expiration date, he's a key player until the eventual retirement happens.

And finally... who would they get? The only guy I would want for the job (and wanted when Francona was hired) is comfortable in Detriot.

[orionquest]

Actually if the season ended today Derek Jeter would prob win MVP, unless he Red Sox make the playoffs or come within 2 Ortix wont get it. And if Yankees win divioson by 10+ Jeter would get even more 1st place votes.

I'm confident that Jeter will get it. Manny and Papi will gain consideration if a Sox surge and Yankees slide (possible, however improbable) simultaneously occur. If the Sox took 2 or 3 games this weekend, the Ortiz talk would continue. Expect it slide off unless the Sox leapfrog.

[Todd13]

Have been waiting for this series to happen so I could do some trash talking.
But all I can say is. THAT SUCKED!!!!

I'm glad it isn't the end of September, early October. I'd be wearing a noose.

[fenwayp]

Well, Yankee Fans...that was pretty impressive. Not much else to say, really.

I think the Red Sox could still put a run together to make things interesting, but I will not get excited until the Yankee lead gets cut to 2 games or less, which may not ever happen this year. I refuse to give up hope, as there are many games left to play.

I would be happy with a Wild Card berth at this point.

Only good sign today was that Wells had a nice game...off to the West Coast !

[Bronx Bombers]

I thought they weren't gonna do as good cause they havent had an off day since the 7th and Boston came in rested but i still had hope they would sweep which they did:D

[lionking]

i honestly thought we would only win 3 of the 5 games.im glad we swept the Sox.but the Sox are still dangerous as they have Big Papi so we need to keep winning.

[GoNiners]

Ortiz wont win the MVP award because he isnt a position player. Offense is only one half of the game for a hitter. It will probably be liklier to come down to Jeter vs Ramirez.

[Bronx Bombers]

Ortiz wont win the MVP award because he isnt a position player. Offense is only one half of the game for a hitter. It will probably be liklier to come down to Jeter vs Ramirez.


Jeter

[Mark Weber]

Most dominant five-count since King Kong Bundy...

http://oratory.rajah.com/user_images/john_c_/fivecount.jpg

[eM249ine]

Most dominant five-count since King Kong Bundy...

http://oratory.rajah.com/user_images/john_c_/fivecount.jpg


Thats Awesome... :D :D

[ToightLikeATiger]

Most dominant five-count since King Kong Bundy...

http://oratory.rajah.com/user_images/john_c_/fivecount.jpg

how did that fued end Mark? oh yeah.... Hulkamania ran wild on him. why? cause after that it wasnt over