Question on Patriots "cheating"

[tjcurrie]

Is it against the rules what they did ? With the video taping and all ? Just wondering if theres actual rules in place.

[Elias_Devil]

There must be because they were fined and lost a draft pick.

[tjcurrie]

Just wondering cause my buddy is tryin to tell me theres no rule, its just unethical.I beg to differ but Im not 100% sure.

[Elias_Devil]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the rule states, but it's there.

[ogrjmj]

its a rule that most teams break

[RoninJai]

I believe the rule said that you cannot have cameras on the sideline, and it was limited to the sidelines. End zones are ok.

[mcq666]

It is against NFL rules, It is not Illegal as in breaking a law, they were punished, time to move on! The taping was to be used for a future game, had nothing to do with the game that was being played.

[rsoaker23]

It is against NFL rules, It is not Illegal as in breaking a law, they were punished, time to move on! The taping was to be used for a future game, had nothing to do with the game that was being played.

On top of that it was 4-5 plays into the game:rolleyes: and an official retrieved the tape...story blown way out of proportion

[Solidus Snake]

Here's a quote from the rules
League policy states that ``no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game,'' and that all video shooting locations for coaching purposes ``must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.''
What the Patriots did wrong was video from the sideline instead of the allowed enclosure. So yes, you can tape just not from the sideline.
Again this story was blown waaayyy out of proportion and the claims of cheating are cries of ignorant people.
Goodell came down hard because he's the new sheriff in town and didn't want to have the perception of being a pushover. So what better way than to smack the Patriots down hard. I think the punishment was excessive but I understand why he did it, to make a statement.

[HoosierDaddy]

It's against the rules. They have special areas for filming and other areas are off limits. Why are these rules in place, you ask? Because the league knows and understands that if you are able to record the sidelines of opposing teams to gather footage of what's going on, it is an unfair advantage. This was not blown out of proportion because the rule is in place for a reason. And the fact that the NFL took this seriously tells the fans that teams doing this have an advantage that hasn't been made public. The Pats won't say what kind of information they find out by doing it but they have been busted doing it in the past and chose to ignore the warnings for continuing to do it. This tells anybody with the slightest bit of common sense that the advantage was well worth tempting fate of punishment for getting caught. People say it was just this one game. They say it was just in the beginning of the game. Not true. They were caught before. It has happened, for all we know, in every game they played. This appears to have been a common practice of the organization for, who knows how long. And other teams aren't getting busted doing it so the argument the "everybody does it" sounds so uneducated. Mangini sure seemed worried about what kind of advantages it would give the Pats since he alerted the NFL to it. If it was no big deal, then why was Mangini so worried about it? Mangini knows what kind of advantages it had for the Pats when he was the coordinator there. And why did the Pats continue doing it after getting busted in the past knowing that the punishment COULD be severe, if it is "no big deal"? The answers are obvious (as I mention before you must have a small amount of common sense to understand why it is not, "no big deal" ;)) and those answers are because it gives the team doing it, an advantage. Period. This is reason #1 why I have been so annoyingly hard on the Pats this year. This scandal did it in for me. Before it all went down I hated the Pats but respected them. Now........? All I'm saying now is, I've backed off quite a bit and I understand just how dominant the team is. I think what they are doing now, with the success they are having now, has nothing to do with cheating. And I wish their fans luck this year because it's exciting for them. But the past has been brought into question in my eyes.

[crushercreel]

Actually the term cheating "cheating" is a misnomer here as the commissioner clearly stated that no unfair advantagecould have been gained by the taping. Its a silly technical rule that was only enforced because the Pats chose to ignore it. I wonder how the rat Manweenie knew we were taping maybe because he used to do it with the Pats, this was just his latest betrayal of the man that made him. Good thing he is almost done in this league he will never be hired again.

[Hardcore Legend]

Actually the term cheating "cheating" is a misnomer here as the commissioner clearly stated that no unfair advantagecould have been gained by the taping. Its a silly technical rule that was only enforced because the Pats chose to ignore it. I wonder how the rat Manweenie knew we were taping maybe because he used to do it with the Pats, this was just his latest betrayal of the man that made him. Good thing he is almost done in this league he will never be hired again.

Um, the Comish ran a 3 day investigation in which all the evidence was then destroyed.

No one knows how extensive Bill's library of films were, but if you've ever seen his home library of books...you can get a good idea that if they were filming in the past, those videos still existed.

[Solidus Snake]

Can you explain to me how this was not blown out of proportion because all I hear is "well it must have been bad or else they wouldn't have been punished." I've already laid out why I believe they were fined the way they were, to be made an example of.
Taping the coaches is not illegal. Taping anything from the sidelines is. That is what they've been found guilty of.
I agree they should have taped the coaches in the allowed enclosure instead of the sidelines but what else were they convicted of?
Every team acknowledges that they read the coaches signals and then try and decipher them during the game. That's why they cover their mouths and have multiple signal callers because they know they're being watched. The Patriots only sin was using a camera on the sideline instead of the allowed enclosure. Please, the way people act you'd think the Patriots had gotten every teams gameplan before each game, poisoned all their top players with the Ebola virus and then went out and dismantled the opposition.
Please try to get some perspective. Was it against the rules? Yes. Were they disciplined? Of course. Did it give them an advantage? We can speculate maybe a bit but don't let your hatred of a franchise cloud your ability to objectively see the situation in its proper context.
Again I think they were disciplined the way they were because they arrogantly defied the league mandate that expressly forbade taping on the sidelines.
Now if I'm wrong and the Patriots have been found guilty of something other than what has been stated above please show me. Bring facts though not any foolish speculation that's been tossed around with no basis in fact or reality

[freezowave1978]

It's funny, because the US Government/CIA is getting seven shades of ***** beat out of them by the press because they destroyed a few Guantanamo Bay interview tapes, and there are outcries of cover up, collusion and torture, but no one even tries to see through the thin veil Goodell has erected.

Woah, woah, woah... Did you just compare NFL playcall poaching to the US government destroying tapes that proved we are engaged in torture that violates the Geneva conventions- Those pesky international laws that we helped established to maintain humanity on a global level in times of conflict. The same tapes that would effectively show that our current administration perpetrated war crimes... Wow, talk about a bad comparison.

Back to the topic on hand. Yes, the Pats violated a rule in the books. However it is really pointless anyways because with amateur video tech as good as it is now you could effectively do the same thing from anywhere in the stadium and relay messages/ with a Blackberry type device, etc.

It's just one of those rules like performance enhancing drugs that the NFL just kind of ignores.

[Solidus Snake]

Teams change their playcalling habits weekly, but not during the game. If you cant see how a taped record of what they signaled, and what transpired on the field would help any team, [let alone the Pats], then I dont know what to tell you.


You do understand that they can tape the coaches signals, right? Just not from the sideline.
I'll speculate that the advantage to be gained is that from the sidelines you get a better angle and clearer image of the hand signals than you would from up in the stands. Again it's a rule and they broke it and were punished.
You consider that to be so egregious that they should be labeled cheaters? We're talking about camera angles here. Are you a some sort of cinematographer who's sensibilities have been offended?
My point is not justification but that this whole "scandal" is so blown out of proportion.

edit;
As far as the destroyed tapes, again we can speculate but the possibilty that the Patriots presented evidence where many teams do the same is certainly reason for Goodell to sweep the whole thing under the rug.
Something else I never hear brought up about destroying the tapes, Why would they show this publically because then the Patriots and everyone else would have copies and access to this video which Goodell is trying to prevent.

[freezowave1978]

Another reason for the sidelines is that it messages can be relayed to coaches more quickly and efficiently.

[SENSin2007]

Pats broke the rule of taping in an unauthorized area. Every team tapes signals and that's why every coach covers their mouth and has a variety of signals. Pats big mistake was taping from an area that was not allowed. How much of an advantage could that give them? None.

[HoosierDaddy]

Id like to be able to bring in some facts or evidence, but the new Commish saw fit to destroy all the evidence, prior to his handing down the punishment:rolleyes:..... rather than let the press&public see exactly what went on, to include the vast archived record of footage they apparently held. Im sure he was either protecting the integrity of the NFL as a whole, or using the "good old boy" network to protect his pals Kraft and Belichek, or more likely both.

It's funny, because the US Government/CIA is getting seven shades of ***** beat out of them by the press because they destroyed a few Guantanamo Bay interview tapes, and there are outcries of cover up, collusion and torture, but no one even tries to see through the thin veil Goodell has erected.

Teams change their playcalling habits weekly, but not during the game. If you cant see how a taped record of what they signaled, and what transpired on the field would help any team, [let alone the Pats], then I dont know what to tell you.Exactly. We'll never know just what exactly was on those tapes. Everybody seems to be so obsessed about taping the signals from the other sidelines but that can be done from anywhere with basic recording devices. Something else was being recorded and in order to protect the integrity of the NFL (anyone who think the sports integrity doesn't need to be protected just see: NBA) the tapes were destroyed so the public CAN'T see what was on them. THAT in and of itself tells most people that something big was going on. This isn't just about stealing signals, people.

[coogrfan]

It's against the rules. They have special areas for filming and other areas are off limits. Why are these rules in place, you ask? Because the league knows and understands that if you are able to record the sidelines of opposing teams to gather footage of what's going on, it is an unfair advantage. This was not blown out of proportion because the rule is in place for a reason. And the fact that the NFL took this seriously tells the fans that teams doing this have an advantage that hasn't been made public. The Pats won't say what kind of information they find out by doing it but they have been busted doing it in the past and chose to ignore the warnings for continuing to do it. This tells anybody with the slightest bit of common sense that the advantage was well worth tempting fate of punishment for getting caught. People say it was just this one game. They say it was just in the beginning of the game. Not true. They were caught before. It has happened, for all we know, in every game they played. This appears to have been a common practice of the organization for, who knows how long. And other teams aren't getting busted doing it so the argument the "everybody does it" sounds so uneducated. Mangini sure seemed worried about what kind of advantages it would give the Pats since he alerted the NFL to it. If it was no big deal, then why was Mangini so worried about it? Mangini knows what kind of advantages it had for the Pats when he was the coordinator there. And why did the Pats continue doing it after getting busted in the past knowing that the punishment COULD be severe, if it is "no big deal"? The answers are obvious (as I mention before you must have a small amount of common sense to understand why it is not, "no big deal" ;)) and those answers are because it gives the team doing it, an advantage. Period. This is reason #1 why I have been so annoyingly hard on the Pats this year. This scandal did it in for me. Before it all went down I hated the Pats but respected them. Now........? All I'm saying now is, I've backed off quite a bit and I understand just how dominant the team is. I think what they are doing now, with the success they are having now, has nothing to do with cheating. And I wish their fans luck this year because it's exciting for them. But the past has been brought into question in my eyes.

Paragraphs, dude. Please.

[HoosierDaddy]

Paragraphs, dude. Please.I'm not in grammar class thus I don't feel the need to perfectly punctuate, spell or paragraph what I type on a SPORTS MESSAGE BOARD!.;)

[Captain]

The NFL's lengthy investigation, past allegations, and the fact that the tapes were quickly destroyed leads me to believe something very fishy was happening. While this season is a fantastic run by a powerful team, I personally will not view the Patriots & their past accomplishments in the same way.

[NotoriousVesaToskala]

I personally will not view the Patriots & their past accomplishments in the same way.

Anyone who does is incredibly naive. This is just like when Bonds was making a run at Aaron's record over the summer, it should have been a great time for the game and its fans but it wasn't due to what Bonds has done in the past. Now the Patriots are making a run at an undefeated season, again, it should be a good time for the league and its fans as we'll probably never see something like this ever again in our lifetimes yet the actions of Bill Belichek will bring everything his team has ever accomplished into question. It's too bad in both situations, Bonds was an elite player since the day he entered the majors and the Patriots have been an elite team for the last 7 years yet the actions of Bonds and Belichek just tarnished the potential accomplishments of each team/individual, at least in my eyes. What was the point of cheating?

[Frank Barone]

The NFL's lengthy investigation, past allegations, and the fact that the tapes were quickly destroyed leads me to believe something very fishy was happening. While this season is a fantastic run by a powerful team, I personally will not view the Patriots & their past accomplishments in the same way.

There is no doubt in my mind that Billy made copies of every bit of information they had collected...

[SENSin2007]

Other than signals what else could have been on the tapes? The tape that was released to the media from the Jets game showed them taping signals and the scoreboard. What other nefarious deeds could they have recorded. I think you guys are looking for more controversy than what has already been admitted to.

[Steel Knight]

"Clubs have specifically been reminded in the past that the videotaping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals on the sidelines is prohibited."

Seems clear cut to me.....Tapes viewed fines issued.

[HoosierDaddy]

Other than signals what else could have been on the tapes? The tape that was released to the media from the Jets game showed them taping signals and the scoreboard. What other nefarious deeds could they have recorded. I think you guys are looking for more controversy than what has already been admitted to.The evidence was destroyed before the public could find out. Must of been something pretty incriminating. Too bad there has to be a big cover up. If they had presented the evidence and showed that it was only minor stuff like signals then nobody would pay much more attention. But since they were in a hurry to destroy the evidence, it leads people to believe that there is more then what's been told to the public. I'm convinced it was much more then some simple signals because this was taken very seriously. If you stood on a sideline and field the opponents sideline I'm sure there is a plethora of stuff you can find.

[RoninJai]

I'm not in grammar class thus I don't feel the need to perfectly punctuate, spell or paragraph what I type on a SPORTS MESSAGE BOARD!.;)

No, but the point of a message board is to have discussions, and that can't be done without being able to present your thoughts in a way that doesn't give people aneurysms. Don't get so defensive....writing the way you wrote that post, no matter how correct or lucid your thought may have been, makes it impossible to take you seriously. Try using some grammar...it won't kill you. I promise.

[trevisw513]

NFL Record for Undefeated Wins: 16-0 - New England Patriots - 2007 * (Was caught cheating in week 1 of the regular season)

:eek::p

[Born_2_Die]

NFL Record for Undefeated Wins: 16-0 - New England Patriots - 2007 * (Was caught cheating in week 1 of the regular season)

:eek::p

Does anyone really think video taping had anything to do with the Pats going 16-0?

I'd love to hear the argument of how it's not their talent that led them this far but video taping signals from week 1.

Comparing the Pats with Bonds is beyond stupid, in my not so humble opinion.

[orionquest]

*Sigh*

16-0 and we're still on this.

If they go 19-0, can we stop?

[Frank Barone]

*Sigh*

16-0 and we're still on this.

If they go 19-0, can we stop?

50-0 doesn't change the fact that they cheated.

[Born_2_Die]

50-0 doesn't change the fact that they cheated.

Yeah, but did it help them in win any games? They videotaped in game 1 against the Jets meaning they were seeking an advantage next time they faced them. They beat them soundly then and didn't need videotapes to round the table and go undefeated.

Sure what they did was against the rules, but i don't think it gave them any advantage over their opponents.
And it's getting to the point where the naysayers are holding on to this dispite the all the evidence to the contrary that their team lost to the Pats fair and square.

[orionquest]

50-0 doesn't change the fact that they cheated.

And they cheated during all 16 wins, I suppose.

The team got caught videotaping something they're allowed to record from the wrong location, and they've done something no team has ever done in order to show that the supposed "advantages" were exaggerated.

But, apparently, it doesn't matter. Logic and rationality don't apply to the Patriots this season.